Will Lordaeron ever be restored?

[Zenny]

He didn't hesitate to attack Thassarian because he was afraid, he did it because it was wrong. Something Sylvanas seems to have become far too heartless to understand. If that's the official way of the Forsaken (which it really seems to be), then all of them can just go and burn for all I care. They don't care for anyone but themselves. And before you go on saying that there are other races that are like this as well, no, they aren't any better.

Don't judge the actions of all by the actions of the few. Even if 80% of forsaken are evil that still leaves 20% that are not. I'm also quite sure the ratios are not that lopsided.

[Rendia]

I think there's a concept that people do not understand, I do not know if it's because people do not understand well English or something ... I'll try to summarize it as much as possible:

From the point of view of humanity (the Alliance) a person ceases to exist at death, therefore the Forsaken are nothing but monsters, not people, their only possible destination is to rest in their graves.

The dead are only entitled to one thing: to rot in their graves, nothing else, anything else is an evil and twisted form of necro-magic that must be eradicated.

The Queen Calia will clean the Kingdom of Lordaeron... Her armies will purge all existence of decay and evil. By the Holy Light the Queen Calia has been crowned, and out of respect for the citizens of Lordaeron who fell in battle, she will return the Kingdom of Lordaeron to its former glory...

For the Holy Light! For Lordaeron! Hail the Queen Calia! Glory to the Alliance!

I would agree... if they were scourge. However all of the Forsaken have their souls within their bodies, therefore they are still sentient beings. They deserve the right for survival, though not at the expense of others. Were they able to continue their lines without the need to slaughter, perhaps they could even exist peacefully. Maybe someday we'll see them free from Sylvanas and able to free themselves of the cycle of death that perpetuates them. Maybe only people willing to stay in the world through undeath will be the future of the Forsaken, not by force.

[Deleted]

Don't judge the actions of all by the actions of the few. Even if 80% of forsaken are evil that still leaves 20% that are not. I'm also quite sure the ratios are not that lopsided.

Perhaps. I have indeed seen some Forsaken that are trying to do good, trying to even restore Eastern Plaguelands. There is an alchemist there, of which name I do not remember... He is not far off from Strathholme, who has even started to question the actions of his own Queen. Forsaken like these are honorable, and I respect them, but those who mindlessly follow Sylvanas down into damnation should just be eradicated, just as we are getting rid of the Kor'kron Orcs in the next patch.

[SherbertLand]

Thassarian was previously a brother in death. You don't suddenly attack your brother just because you end up on different sides in a war, when the only thing that determined these sides were their race.

Fear has no place in the Horde? Really? So everyone in the Horde should be mindless killing machines without morals or what? Fear is required to be a good soldier, without fear you easily underestimate your opponent. Without fear, you cannot be brave, because you don't understand the danger.

He didn't hesitate to attack Thassarian because he was afraid, he did it because it was wrong. Something Sylvanas seems to have become far too heartless to understand. If that's the official way of the Forsaken (which it really seems to be), then all of them can just go and burn for all I care. They don't care for anyone but themselves. And before you go on saying that there are other races that are like this as well, no, they aren't any better.

If he wasn't going to be willing to fight the Alliance, he had no place leading that force there. It's not a mystery that the Horde and Alliance are at war and if he was unwilling to take part, he should have never held the position in the first place. It is not wrong for the forsaken to take more land. That's how things work.

The Horde has always been an alliance of necessity and the forsaken have made reasonable contributions to the Horde and its war machine.

Just because you lack fear doesn't mean you lack morals, but I'm not going to debate philosophy with you, that won't go anywhere.

Sorry there are cultures with different perspectives than you.

[Shefu]

I think there's a concept that people do not understand, I do not know if it's because people do not understand well English or something ... I'll try to summarize it as much as possible:

From the point of view of humanity (the Alliance) a person ceases to exist at death, therefore the Forsaken are nothing but monsters, not people, their only possible destination is to rest in their graves.

The dead are only entitled to one thing: to rot in their graves, nothing else, anything else is an evil and twisted form of necro-magic that must be eradicated.

The Queen Calia will clean the Kingdom of Lordaeron... Her armies will purge all existence of decay and evil. By the Holy Light the Queen Calia has been crowned, and out of respect for the citizens of Lordaeron who fell in battle, she will return the Kingdom of Lordaeron to its former glory...

For the Holy Light! For Lordaeron! Hail the Queen Calia! Glory to the Alliance!

RP wise, this is pretty cool. But realistically speaking you're delusional

[Deleted]

If he wasn't going to be willing to fight the Alliance, he had no place leading that force there. It's not a mystery that the Horde and Alliance are at war and if he was unwilling to take part, he should have never held the position in the first place. It is not wrong for the forsaken to take more land. That's how things work.

The Horde has always been an alliance of necessity and the forsaken have made reasonable contributions to the Horde and its war machine.

Just because you lack fear doesn't mean you lack morals, but I'm not going to debate philosophy with you, that won't go anywhere.

Sorry there are cultures with different perspectives than you.

Meh. He didn't refuse to attack the Alliance, he fought them all out and even won the fight. He however, hesitated in attacking his former brother, which is fully understandable. For this he was punished, taken away to be altered, his whole personality was probably taken away from him. How is that just, even for the Forsaken?

[bohapjut]

They would prefer to be resurrected to life, Sylvanas would at least

[Rendia]

They would prefer to be resurrected to life, Sylvanas would at least

I'm not sure about that anymore. Sylvanas is WoW's Kerrigan. She would rather be Queen Bitch than a nobody.

[SherbertLand]

Meh. He didn't refuse to attack the Alliance, he fought them all out and even won the fight. He however, hesitated in attacking his former brother, which is fully understandable. However, for this he was punished, taken away to be altered, his whole personality was probably taken away from him. How is that just, even for the Forsaken?

You can't really say what happened or if anything did happen, not until Koltira is finished, I suppose. Or escapes.

I'm not completely against the idea that Sylvannas could have some negative agendas up her sleeve, but she hasn't really done anything that evil yet. What? She wanted to continue her race's lifespan? I don't know about you, but I'm okay with races wanting to continue to live and prosper.

Don't act like the other races of the Horde aren't advocating her actions. They don't question. That's the same thing.

[Arcanimus]

Lordaeron doesn't need restoring.
The Forsaken are the people of Lordaeron, even before their rise from the grave.

[bohapjut]

I'm not sure about that anymore. Sylvanas is WoW's Kerrigan. She would rather be Queen Bitch than a nobody.

Have you read Stormrage her has a dream scene with Varimathras ressurect her

[Deleted]

You can't really say what happened or if anything did happen, not until Koltira is finished, I suppose. Or escapes.

I'm not completely against the idea that Sylvannas could have some negative agendas up her sleeve, but she hasn't really done anything that evil yet. What? She wanted to continue her race's lifespan? I don't know about you, but I'm okay with races wanting to continue to live and prosper.

Don't act like the other races of the Horde aren't advocating her actions. They don't question. That's the same thing.

She's doing the exact same thing the Lich King did, in her own words the only difference between her and the Lich King was that she served the Horde. I wonder for how long she will stay loyal to the Horde, once she has all the power she needs to be on her own...

[SherbertLand]

She's doing the exact same thing the Lich King did, in her own words the only difference between her and the Lich King was that she served the Horde. I wonder for how long she will stay loyal to the Horde, once she has all the power she needs to be on her own...

That's never been a secret. The undead joined the Horde to not get slaughtered by the Alliance. They've never claimed loyalty.

[Deleted]

That's never been a secret. The undead joined the Horde to not get slaughtered by the Alliance. They've never claimed loyalty.

So why should the Horde sit around waiting for Sylvanas to build an army only to stab them in the back? You said it yourself, they have no loyalty to the Horde, they are working for themselves, they are raising new undead to increase their numbers. Sooner or later we will have to deal with them as we did with the Scourge.

[Frozen Death Knight]

He was a Horde making unofficial treaties with an Alliance instead of taking Andorhal like he was supposed to. It says it in the logs you just posted. I don't see the problem. At the time of that event, the Cataclysm had wrecked most of the world. Of course people are going to be forced into desperate situations. Fear has no place in the Horde.

Man, that was heartless, even for someone who would fully support the Forsaken.

---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 10:08 PM ----------

Meh. He didn't refuse to attack the Alliance, he fought them all out and even won the fight. He however, hesitated in attacking his former brother, which is fully understandable. For this he was punished, taken away to be altered, his whole personality was probably taken away from him. How is that just, even for the Forsaken?

I am still puzzled how anyone can argue that the Forsaken has free will with that kind of stuff happening.

[Verdugo]

Man, that was heartless, even for someone who would fully support the Forsaken.

Maybe you should change your avatar to represent this asshole

Because seeing such talk from someone in Helm of Domination just feels wrong.

I am still puzzled how anyone can argue that the Forsaken has free will with that kind of stuff happening.

Remind me of what happens when humans show disloyalty to their lord.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Maybe you should change your avatar to represent this asshole

Why should I? Unlike some people here, I actually have made my own avatar from scratch. Plus, you can like a character despite thinking he/she is completely despicable, so I don't see your point, really.

---------- Post added 2013-04-13 at 10:23 PM ----------

Because seeing such talk from someone in Helm of Domination just feels wrong.



Remind me of what happens when humans show disloyalty to their lord.

Really, Verdugo? Really? Man, this conversation is turning out to be quite a "serious business" deal here. Whoop dee freakin doo.

Then you cannot call it free will now, can you? Plus, unlike Sylvanas, Human lords don't have access to mind altering devices and such to completely turn a person's personality and values into something entirely different.

[Frontenac]

What do you mean by "restored". Do you mean restored to the Alliance? Or do you mean that the land itself will be restored from corruption? If it's about the land, I think the fact that it is still corrupted and that Sylvanas is even spreading the corruption in Hillsbrad and Andorhal shows how short-sighted, dim-witted or even mad/evil she is. She is controlling a vast territory now, with vast forests and and rich soil. Some parts never were corrupted at all, some parts got restored. In WPL, farmers were beginning to settle before the Battle of Andorhal. Heck, even Tirisfal is good enough for cultivation ! She is part of an organization, namely the Horde, who is in dire need of ressources. She could turn her land into the granary of the Horde and sell food and wood to the Horde. She would get rich and powerful, gain immeasurable influence in the Horde, and she would be able to buy and produce all she needs for her army. But she will never do that so Lordaeron will always remain the wasteland it is now. It seems the Undead like to be dressed in rags and scavenge instead of being productive. I mean for something else than brewing plagues.

Also, Garrosh, with his thick orcish skull, should have thought of it and asked her to do just that, instead of attacking Gilneas and make yet another enemy.

[Zuben]

I am still puzzled how anyone can argue that the Forsaken has free will with that kind of stuff happening.

Let me unpuzzle you:

1) We don't know exactly what Sylvanas is doing to Koltira.
2) We have the undead starting quests presenting how newly risen are given options to choose from as well as a blue post stating free will is the cornerstone of Forsaken culture.

[leaks]

Then you cannot call it free will now, can you? Plus, unlike Sylvanas, Human lords don't have access to mind altering devices and such to completely turn a person's personality and values into something entirely different.

Being punished for stupidity and almost losing a battle because you're too busy playing grab ass with your boyfriend is not the same as not having free will. If that was true then no one has it. And what's this BS about mind altering devices? More from your crystal ball?