Holy Paladin nerfs in PTR patch 5.3

[nightfalls]

Not trying to say Disc isn't OP, but it certainly has less utility than we do, especially when you include things like DProt & Bubble for easy cheesing mechanics

DProt? (maybe you meant bop/etc.) Either way, many mechanics this tier have been (stealth)-made to ignore immunities, and also to ignore Hand of Purity. At the start of this tier, I'd agree that some of our utility was OP, not so much anymore. Of course bubble is still great elsewhere, but it's definitely a lot more fair.

If anything because of the whole "1-tank" controversy I see many more tank swap mechanics being made BoP-immune also.

[Xs]

DProt? (maybe you meant bop/etc.)

I mean using Divine Protection (Pally-Wall) to do things other healers can't, or make life a hell of a lot easier with those mechanics

And yes, for the sake of argument I did ignore HoPur as it has been sadly reduced to what seems like a 10% raid CD on a lot of the mechanics it was otherwise useful on, although Blizz seem to have at least (for some) only nerfed the DoT reduction rather than completely voiding it, would be nice if they where more transparent about this though

[Deleted]

I mean using Divine Protection (Pally-Wall) to do things other healers can't, or make life a hell of a lot easier with those mechanics

Almost every class has such a cooldown now.

On daybreak, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use it with 2 stacks ? HR HR HS is fine with a 6 sec CD HS, you even have to wait a bit (or EF/LoD). With HA on, I'm even a bit late on the HS, using HP.

I also hate the Purity nerf, esp seeing how most paladins didn't use it properly, it's really against the clever ones (well, i have to say i felt it was unfair that 25man didn't had to deal with frostbite, stacking paladins. But you're still not packing now, so that's not serving the purpose...)

[Xs]

Almost every class has such a cooldown now.

On daybreak, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use it with 2 stacks ? HR HR HS is fine with a 6 sec CD HS, you even have to wait a bit (or EF/LoD). With HA on, I'm even a bit late on the HS, using HP.

Almost every class, not every healer. Most of them don't have one, and combined with the effective health we get from EF 100% boost on ourselves, it makes us a lot more tanky than the other healers, thats my point

And for Daybreak, its not so much that HR HR HS isn't possible or isn't fine to do, its just the fact it seems like a lot of AoEs are over by then, and the ones that aren't it doesn't give us a significant advantage over the old 100% no stack, I think I'd prefer a 100%/50% stack buff atm just to front load some of it and give us burst cluster AoE as a niche, just feels like a really lack-luster puddle AoE that we have to spend 6 seconds devoted to

Just my two cents, haven't completed our raid this week so its very boss bias but it just felt a bit heavy handed

[nightfalls]

Almost every class, not every healer. Most of them don't have one, and combined with the effective health we get from EF 100% boost on ourselves, it makes us a lot more tanky than the other healers, thats my point.

Monks and druids have personals that can rival paladins. Priests and shaman not so much, but shamans did get some extra personals (Tier 1), and priests also have desperate prayer and some passive reduction from glyphs.

40% magic damage is nice, but it's a nice personal, not something that will make us superman. 20% (if we're talking physical) even more so, you aren't going to be able to survive running through extra attenuation bubbles with that.

[Freia]

Any feedback on Daybreak ? I'm kinda dissapointed actually, it definetly boosted the spell but still a shitton overhealing... I thought it would work better than this.

Honestly the numbers seemed the same to me as before patch. The only increase I saw is explained by the T15 2p.

[Deleted]

Has anyone noticed there legendry meta gem procing less then pre patch ?

[Freia]

Has anyone noticed there legendry meta gem procing less then pre patch ?

No. The buff name was changed to Lucidity, so if you use a Weak Aura or other addon to track it you need to make sure you change it.

[Deleted]

In some fights, the paladin nerf was huge(10man). But we are still pretty good. We just need to change our playstyle abit. The daybreak heal on the alone target was 100% was pretty good on some fights.
Your HR > HS > was stronger then Divine light on a singel target. But now this is changed. Lets take promordius for example. On tank healing i was just HR and HS the tank. But now we can't really do that if you are on tank duty. Need to stick in some singel target heals.

Now for the daybreak stack change. In some occasion it was pretty annoying. Because if you wanted to heal the raid (like mageara). For the first aoe rotation you couldn't use HS on CD. Cause...you need that 2 stacks from daybreak. (and with tier15 gear). But after the first rotation you have time to spam 2 HS before HS is ready. But I guess in the end, the healing output is of course higher.

For gear, I am about to collect all gear that has mastery on them. And the 2 setbonus from tier15. But I have awhile to get there lol, im to undergeard for the content im at in atm xD but im managing ;D

[Dubalicious]

The T14 4pc nerf hit me hard. Not so much my output, although there was a very noticeable decline in output, but more importantly it completely killed the "fun" factor. The spec is back to feeling extremely, almost painfully, slow. Slow holy power generation, an increased necessity to cast slow heals, and a reduced amount of Infusion procs compounding that slooooow feeling. Last night was the least enjoyable raid night I've had since late Wrath. While I hope I become adjusted back to it, I don't think that's going to happen tbqh. Playing my Mistweaver that is 35 item levels lower than my paladin feels like I'm playing the game on fast forward.

Heavily considering a haste build just to make the spec less slow, and hopefully more fun.

*should probably note that last night was strictly H-Lei Shen progression for my guild, but I don't think that changes my overall thoughts/opinions here

[Monkeyofcode]

The T14 4pc nerf hit me hard. Not so much my output, although there was a very noticeable decline in output, but more importantly it completely killed the "fun" factor. The spec is back to feeling extremely, almost painfully, slow. Slow holy power generation, an increased necessity to cast slow heals, and a reduced amount of Infusion procs compounding that slooooow feeling. Last night was the least enjoyable raid night I've had since late Wrath. While I hope I become adjusted back to it, I don't think that's going to happen tbqh. Playing my Mistweaver that is 35 item levels lower than my paladin feels like I'm playing the game on fast forward.

Heavily considering a haste build just to make the spec less slow, and hopefully more fun.

*should probably note that last night was strictly H-Lei Shen progression for my guild, but I don't think that changes my overall thoughts/opinions here

Are you saying you were doing H-Lei shen using the T14 4p? Wouldnt the stats of heroic t15 gear be better? O_O

[Freia]

Are you saying you were doing H-Lei shen using the T14 4p? Wouldnt the stats of heroic t15 gear be better? O_O

No they are saying not having the unnerfed t14 4p and switching to t15 pieces made the holy paladin playstyle slow and not enjoyable.

[Dubalicious]

Are you saying you were doing H-Lei shen using the T14 4p? Wouldnt the stats of heroic t15 gear be better? O_O

Ah, sorry I didn't make that very clear. I was NOT using T14 due to the nerf. Should probably have referenced going from a 4s holy shock to a 6s holy shock is the basis for my post.

[Revolutions]

I've managed to get back to 30% mastery post nerf.

How are you guys sitting?

[Dubalicious]

No they are saying not having the unnerfed t14 4p and switching to t15 pieces made the holy paladin playstyle slow and not enjoyable.

^ Yes, this exactly.

[Deleted]

No. The buff name was changed to Lucidity, so if you use a Weak Aura or other addon to track it you need to make sure you change it.

Yes I already knew this but still it is defiantly procing less often, pre patch it was procing a fair amount per encounter, sometime sup to 3-4 times in a row now, its just now and again if haedley ever at all.

[Dubalicious]

Yes I already knew this but still it is defiantly procing less often, pre patch it was procing a fair amount per encounter, sometime sup to 3-4 times in a row now, its just now and again if haedley ever at all.

You can track this through logs. My uptime last week for progression attempts was ~14% and this week was ~11% which isn't anything out of the norm imo. I, unfortunately, don't have a variety of kills/logs to compare pre/post patch data, but others certainly will =)

[Lantern214]

I've managed to get back to 30% mastery post nerf.

How are you guys sitting?

Without gemming all my slots pure mastery gems, I can reach 37ish % unbuffed. A bunch of paladins I know can't even reach 30% after the nerf.

[Deleted]

@Xs : I get your PoV. I'm fine with the new daybreak actually, doesnt feel very different from the old one though (using 2p15) and thus i'm disappointed.

@All paladins that hate coming back to looong casts... Get yourself an alt ? I cannot approve statements that are only liking a certain gameplay allowed by a specific tier... Were you bored during 5.0 too ? And don't you like to be challenged and change your habits ?
I think Blizzard never intended to make the paladin the way it was these last few months. Playing the spec as a main character since WoTLK release, we've (almost) always had these huge casts... That's just part of the spec, praying the light and stuff, this can't go instant ! Also remembering the time with no HR, how fun raid healing was (or was it ?) !
I've always liked Hpaladin for the cds you have and all the very specific spells you could use, that's what makes it, if not fun, interesting in my eyes, and the subtle balance between overpowered healing and managing the mana.
This I clearly miss when playing my monk, and don't get me wrong, I love MW, but sometimes I miss Avenging Wrath, and I almost never need to check on my mana...

I've managed to get back to 30% mastery post nerf.

How are you guys sitting?

30% in raid conditions

[Dubalicious]

@All paladins that hate coming back to looong casts... Get yourself an alt ? I cannot approve statements that are only liking a certain gameplay allowed by a specific tier... Were you bored during 5.0 too ? And don't you like to be challenged and change your habits ?

You're making a lot of assumptions here. "Being discouraged" doesn't mean "time to reroll" or "the sky is falling" it means "I feel discouraged by the changes" and nothing more. Most of my enjoyment in the game comes from difficult raid encounters with exciting/interesting raid mechanics, something that will (hopefully) always be present.

Playing the spec as a main character since WoTLK release, we've (almost) always had these huge casts... That's just part of the spec, praying the light and stuff, this can't go instant

This really isn't accurate from my experience in Wotlk and Cata - both expansions were haste dominated, and Wotlk specifically was GCD capped spells for the last half of the expansion.

I've always liked Hpaladin for the cds you have and all the very specific spells you could use, that's what makes it, if not fun, interesting in my eyes, and the subtle balance between overpowered healing and managing the mana.

Fair enough. I don't really find our utility spells "fun" at all. Useful? Absolutely. Overpowered? At times, arguably yes. [E] I do agree with your sentiment regarding throughput cooldowns, love managing those from fight to fight.


Honestly, my whole issue just hinges on feeling "slowed down". It's like, you give some 18 year old kid, who usually drives an old Honda Civic, a Ferrari for 3 months and after that 3 months you don't even want to look at your Honda anymore. You used to love that Civic, but now it's just "Not a Ferrari". It takes time to adjust, I hope I can adjust, but I have no issue with expressing my opinion that right now - it pretty much feels like I'm driving an old Civic.