Rebuttal to Vol'jin 5.3 Spoilers

[Verdugo]

What else did you expect from troll.

[Orly]

yea, the alliance can raise their hands up in a half assed "we got em". oh how happy you all must feel. too bad it wont mean jack shit when it's all said and done. you will still help the siege you will still help the rebels get what they want (and what you want). and all you can pat yourselves on the back over is weather or not Vol'jin sucks up to you. /sarcastic cheering

Oh how much horde bias. Everywhere just horde screaming and horde yelling. I guess it's true, most of MMO-Champ posters are horde. After so many years or having your way or nothing else, you now complain about blizzard turning a quest text from a threat to a proposal. Horde attitude 8-|

[Combatbutler]

Oh how much horde bias. Everywhere just horde screaming and horde yelling. I guess it's true, most of MMO-Champ posters are horde. After so many years or having your way or nothing else, you now complain about blizzard turning a quest text from a threat to a proposal. Horde attitude 8-|

Both sides bitch and whine over trivial matters all the time, accusing the other side of bias.

[Orly]

Why do I feel like if Varian had gone batshit insane and we were getting the Siege of Stormwind, the Alliance players would be complaining about the demonization of their leader and whining about having to have the Horde come in and help out while they were being portrayed as mere rebels?

I agree with what Destil said.

Believe it or not, horde is more evil than the alliance. The forsaken alone tip that scale in your direction. Just accept that fact already. And another fact that you should get is that Alliance need to do nothing. As far as I am concerned, this patch should've been horde-only. Sure, Garrosh is a threat to the Alliance as well, but who's to say the next leader on the line won't be as much of a threat? It would make no difference to the Alliance, and that's why they don't have much incentive to assist NOW anyway.

[Kojo]

Believe it or not, horde is more evil than the alliance. The forsaken alone tip that scale in your direction. Just accept that fact already. And another fact that you should get is that Alliance need to do nothing.

People keep spewing this, I don't buy it. If the alli don't need to do anything why are they there? Pretty obvious Garrosh finds a toy that makes him an immediate concern so that line is BS. That they're making the troll leader from a reasonable troll willing to cooperate into a complete kowtowing pussy is one thing but the alliance isn't there to help him, they're there to help themselves and the trolls are just cannon fodder for them.

[Sky High]

Oh how much horde bias. Everywhere just horde screaming and horde yelling. I guess it's true, most of MMO-Champ posters are horde. After so many years or having your way or nothing else, you now complain about blizzard turning a quest text from a threat to a proposal. Horde attitude 8-|

your first mistake is thinking that I actually care. if you read what I said I state that this whole exchange you and Vol'jin are having CHANGES NOTHING. in the story and in the game the allies are still going to help the rebels and the rebels are still going to help the allies, we don't know what will come of things when it is all said and done, personally I want important people to die, horde side surprisingly more then allies (kill green jesus). but at this point its nothing but a FEW pages of dialog that have peoples pants in a bunch, which even in grand scheme of the story is nothing but a short exchange between the player and Vol'jin that again, CHANGES NOTHING. but oh no it means SO MUCH to us when it means so little in reality.

and please, QQ moar about horde favoritism on these forums, see if I care. I'm free to have my stance and opinion on these issues don't like it? tough shit.

[Florena]

The horde rebels and alliance NEED eachother. They wouldn't be setting up the moral of 'don't let pride blind you' with Shaohao's quest if it wasn't going to be paid off. Vol'jin can't storm Orgrimmar on his own, nor can Alliance, and hope to have a decisive victory. Maybe a copout, but that's the way the story seems to be heading. "Proud races will have to admit they need help. Beware of pride."

[Yogg-Saron, God of Death]

Both sides bitch and whine over trivial matters all the time, accusing the other side of bias.

Difference, Alliance does it because of setback after setback while Horde came out the victor for almost the entirety of Cataclysm and part of MoP; driving the lore while the Alliance limps along with the lore the Horde creates.


That said, I like this change. But that's also partially because I love dialogue options. We need more of them, Mass Effect/SWToR style.

That said, I don't think it's a bad thing that the Alliance is sassing back at Vol'jin. He should've been smart enough to know that saying something like "we give your dead to Sylvanas" won't be received well by the group that has had that actually happen to them, no matter how sarcastic it me. It comes down to being sensible, and I don't think it was a smart move to be sarcastic about such a thing.

That's why it's good that if it fits you, or your character, you can choose that dialogue option to make him be a bit more humble. Of course, this also counts for the Alliance - it wasn't smart for the PC to ask what he did, but it would've been even worse if the PC who coerced such a reply out of Vol'jin in the first placed suddenly lost all his guts and said "Oh, okay, sorry. I'm sorry. I'll go get everything you need.".

[Sky High]

The horde rebels and alliance NEED eachother. They wouldn't be setting up the moral of 'don't let pride blind you' with Shaohao's quest if it wasn't going to be paid off. Vol'jin can't storm Orgrimmar on his own, nor can Alliance, and hope to have a decisive victory. Maybe a copout, but that's the way the story seems to be heading. "Proud races will have to admit they need help. Beware of pride."

which I'm all for, but when Garrosh is dead lets move right into the betrayal and backstabbing.

[Shamanberry]

I basically read this as the Alliance player throwing a question at Vol'jin, and he jabs back sarcastically. If you push the issue with him, his thought would be "oh, I guess he's not getting this...", and goes back to diplomatic mode to reassure you. His point isn't to be a jerk, it's to point out why your idea is silly too. His first point does that, but if you fail to grasp that, he backs down to show he wasn't really being hostile, and remind you that working together is the best idea rather than letting it devolve into an argument between the factions about which side needs the other more.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I basically read this as the Alliance player throwing a question at Vol'jin, and he jabs back sarcastically. If you push the issue with him, his thought would be "oh, I guess he's not getting this...", and goes back to diplomatic mode to reassure you. His point isn't to be a jerk, it's to point out why your idea is silly too. His first point does that, but if you fail to grasp that, he backs down to show he wasn't really being hostile, and remind you that working together is the best idea rather than letting it devolve into an argument between the factions about which side needs the other more.

I don't think he was being silly, he was being demeaning. Like "oH YOU incompetent allies will surely get yourself killed by Garrosh! And when that happens I'll laugh at you're lost, pick up your dead and turn it into an advantage!". Is that his point? That the Alliance can't take over Ogrimmar without his help? Personally I find that he equals his little rebellion to the might of the entire Alliance army insulting. The only reason we need him is to end the war sooner. Not because without him the Alliance would never be able to invade Ogrimmar. No that is an insult. And when you call him out on it, he knew he almost messed up his only shot at survival.

[Florena]

I basically read this as the Alliance player throwing a question at Vol'jin, and he jabs back sarcastically. If you push the issue with him, his thought would be "oh, I guess he's not getting this...", and goes back to diplomatic mode to reassure you. His point isn't to be a jerk, it's to point out why your idea is silly too. His first point does that, but if you fail to grasp that, he backs down to show he wasn't really being hostile, and remind you that working together is the best idea rather than letting it devolve into an argument between the factions about which side needs the other more.

IMO he wasn't being sarcastic, but was bluffing, knowing that he's screwed if the Alliance doesn't get him those supplies. This seems to be backed up by his response to calling his bluff, which both Kosak in a tweet and the dialogue option explicitly refer to as a bluff.

[Dragon2K]

I don't think he was being silly, he was being demeaning. Like "oH YOU incompetent allies will surely get yourself killed by Garrosh! And when that happens I'll laugh at you're lost, pick up your dead and turn it into an advantage!". Is that his point? That the Alliance can't take over Ogrimmar without his help? Personally I find that he equals his little rebellion to the might of the entire Alliance army insulting. The only reason we need him is to end the war sooner. Not because without him the Alliance would never be able to invade Ogrimmar. No that is an insult. And when you call him out on it, he knew he almost messed up his only shot at survival.

Nope, definitely being silly.

[Sky High]

I don't think he was being silly, he was being demeaning. Like "oH YOU incompetent allies will surely get yourself killed by Garrosh! And when that happens I'll laugh at you're lost, pick up your dead and turn it into an advantage!". Is that his point? That the Alliance can't take over Ogrimmar without his help? Personally I find that he equals his little rebellion to the might of the entire Alliance army insulting. The only reason we need him is to end the war sooner. Not because without him the Alliance would never be able to invade Ogrimmar. No that is an insult. And when you call him out on it, he knew he almost messed up his only shot at survival.

there are two kinds of people.

[bohapjut]

Vol'jin is unnecessarily insulting.He is unnecessarily undiplomatic. He's better than this. We've also worked with him before so he should and does know better. Which also means his request the Alliance prove themselves trustworthy means he has forgotten what he did during the Zandalari incursions

He is only unnecessarily undiplomatic if the player chooses to be undiplomatic to him first.

[Florena]

He is only unnecessarily undiplomatic if the player chooses to be undiplomatic to him first.

Yeah, to start the whole conversation you have to approach him with the possibility of a temporary truce against Garrosh, and THEN say to him 'well why should I help you' after you came to him to offer your help. The whole thing is just kind of silly imo, being able to call his bluff is great for not making the player look like a pushover or idiot, but really as others have said the whole thing just gets you back to square one, though it does get Vol'jin to spell out the already apparent reasons for why you'd want to help his rebelion.

[Haven]

On topic, this is more like a slap in the face more than anything. Sure it shows Vol'jin's true more peacefulcentric side, however it just makes him look like a weak beggar and will probably give alliance players giant egos about him needing them than they need him.

Has he been more than that before?

I enjoy the Vol'jin that has the balls to say what needs to be said to shut people up and get them in line. It makes him seem more like a drill sergeant that's only being a giant ass because it's his job to whip soldiers into shape.

Garrosh tried to whip the Horde into shape, and we got a liberastic rebellion on our hands. Pffft.

[Scummer]

I REALLY like this. Very happy to see Blizzard responding to feedback in such a great way.

[stomination]

This reminds me of that debate on when the panda called the girl panda pretty.
The other funny thing is 98% of players dont read quest text.

[Dragon2K]

This reminds me of that debate on when the panda called the girl panda pretty.
The other funny thing is 98% of players dont read quest text.

That sounds like one of the 89.4% of statistics that are made up on the spot.