Questions about the flaws and silly things in Throne of Thunder

[Lord Pebbleton]

Hi everyone.
The title might be misleading. I'm not here to rant. I enjoy raiding ToT, but i noticed some things that made me scratch my head.
The environment is nice and bosses are interesting, but still some of them do not feel right.
So i'm sharing with you the questions that came to my mind. Maybe i ignore some aspects that make the whole more reasonable, who knows?
I hope you will have the patience to read this.

I've seen a lot of valuable threads about lore being twisted and contradicted in patch 5.2, so i'll leave that part out.

1-Jin'rokh. Pretty cool guy, blue skinned because of thunder power. I remember him from Yojamba Isle mainly because he didn't speak like other trolls. I mean, a dire troll speaking is "rare", but he spoke of war without grammar errors, and that struck me. In ToT he's gone "I call da storm!" and "How you beat me?". Why is that? Does power make people dumb? If so, why didn't Deathwing spend his time repeatedly hitting a mountain with his forehead yelling "Eugh! Derp!"?

2-The Council of Elders. Cool fight as you get to battle troll leaders. Four powerful troll leaders... in a single fight. Why? Shouldn't they get more space for themselves only? Even Archavon had that. I mean, we knew Sul was going to make an appearance sooner or later. Malakk is a King. The high priestess.. we already dealt with her. I find Kazra'jin to be a damn cool looking troll. Shouldn't at least the first two i mentioned get a special place on their own? Why did they group all of them together?

3-Megaera. Unique boss fight. I cannot see how a single cloud serpent got to become a multi-headed regenerating animal that looks nothing like a cloud serpent. That's more of a tought by the way, as i don't think anyone here is a Mogu.

4-Primordius. I found him to be a cool character. You can feel his pain in his words. However, i can't see... why our mutated form during the encounter is a Saurok? Shouldn't we become some kind of flesh abominations, or do we share the same origin as Saurok?
"The Saurok are a race of lizard-men, created by the Mogu from the fauna of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, choosing several particularly sturdy varieties of local reptiles." <--- from WoWpedia.
Let's say we are basically... fauna of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. But we already dealt with mutations before. Why doesn't Un'sok (HoF) turns us to Saurok, and why doesn't Mutated ToT Blood turn us to Amber Monstrosities? Maybe it's because they're two different types of mutations, but if so, both don't make much sense to me.

5-Huge disappointment with Lei Shen. When i first turned into a spark to get to his place i was like "damn, here we go!". It was terrible to see that square floating over nothingness with four big faces in the immediate distance. I expected to see a proper throne (you know, THRONE of Thunder). If the whole raid is referred to as Throne of Thunder, shouldn't there be an actual throne, given Lei Shen is a king after all? Why is he in that minuscule space? It almost feels like they placed him there and said "Ok, boss, stay here and play with your lightning things while we keep our enemies at bay, okay? You're a good boy.".
It made me sad. Also given that once awakened, we instantly started destroying his minions and conquering his island before he had the time to actually pose a threat. And then we wreck him upon that sad thing. Throneless. It felt... miserable. Almost nothing of what we saw of him pointed to his supposed ancient power over the whole Pandaria.

6-Aren't Blizzard jokes getting out of hand? I believe they are. I mean, i don't mind Adele rolling in the deeps (try typing "Adele" on Wowhead!). That made me smile. But why, WHY does a boss like Durumu, an ancient being that knows only pain, say stuff like "See what i did there?" or " I'm keeping an eye on you."? It is nothing important, but it ruins my immersion. When i see such things, i stare blankly at them for some seconds, then try to focus on the fight to avoid seeing them again. Same goes for Dark Animus. Flee! It's released! You've doomed yourselves! ..."Activation Sequence: Successfully dividing by zero". "Activation Sequence: setting doom level to 15000 millidooms".

7-Aren't there too few trash mobs between bosses? Maybe that's the reason why bosses are so near each other, as there's nothing to fill the space between them. Primordius is supposed to be almost forgotten, yet he's right under the stairs leading to the Animus. Maybe it has to do with the fact Ra-den is right under Primordius, but still i cannot see why the Saurok is there.

8-Don't you think we spend too much time in sewers, depths, laboratories, bridges, arenas... while the actual palace begins with the second to last boss? Which adds to question five.


I might have forgot to add some questions, but i'll do it later, when i remember them. If you want, add your points of view and your questions, and help me shedding some light on those question marks!
Thanks.

[Kralljin]

6-Aren't Blizzard jokes getting out of hand? I believe they are. I mean, i don't mind Adele rolling in the deeps (try typing "Adele" on Wowhead!). That made me smile. But why, WHY does a boss like Durumu, an ancient being that knows only pain, say stuff like "See what i did there?" or " I'm keeping an eye on you."?

I don't know, maybe because this...thing actually just plays with us?

"Thousands of years ... without new playthings ... I will enjoy this."

" I expected so much more. How... disappointing."

Durumu treats us like playthings, that's why he makes fun of us.

7-Aren't there too few trash mobs between bosses? Maybe that's the reason why bosses are so near each other, as there's nothing to fill the space between them. Primordius is supposed to be almost forgotten, yet he's right under the stairs leading to the Animus. Maybe it has to do with the fact Ra-den is right under Primordius, but still i cannot see why the Saurok is there.

Go on, the idea of "More Trash pls" will certainly find many supporters.

And the idea that Primordius and Durumu are forgotten comes actually from the fact that this Citadel was abadoned after the Thunder King died for the 1st time, hence why most Mogu forget that those were actually in the citadel.

8-Don't you think we spend too much time in sewers, depths, laboratories, bridges, arenas... while the actual palace begins with the second to last boss? Which adds to question five.

Fair criticism, though the Forgotten Depths part should have been replaced with something else and the Halls of Flesh shaping should have felt more like laboratories instead of sewers.

[Resentful]

The hell why would you want more trash OP? Like you are probably one of very few that WANTS more trash

[Lord Pebbleton]

Go on, the idea of "More Trash pls" will certainly find many supporters.

The hell why would you want more trash OP? Like you are probably one of very few that WANTS more trash

I don't want more trash, i'm just saying more enemies to deal with is a way to make a place feel alive. It's some sort of castle after all, why aren't there a lot of people trying to stop you from reaching the king?
Lots of them are fighting you on the Isle of Thunder. But since Lei Shen is this terrible and cruel tyrant, why doesn't he recall troops as soon as he sees the isle is lost and leave it to destruction?
Of course there are other ways to show a place is indeed crowded without having to deal with every single mob. For example, Opera Event audience, or the Siege of Ulduar. Those look like reasonable to me. It is not a must to have a palace full of trolls and mogus, but as of now it feels like it's ruins more than a fortress.

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 02:46 PM ----------

I don't know, maybe because this...thing actually just plays with us?
"Thousands of years ... without new playthings ... I will enjoy this."
" I expected so much more. How... disappointing."
Durumu treats us like playthings, that's why he makes fun of us.

Treating us like playthings doesn't mean he has to use nowadays derpy expressions ("c wut i did thar?"), because that's how i view them in my mind. I might be the only one, though.

[Grym]

2-The Council of Elders.

But it is more epic knowing that we can handle that many "tough guys" at the same time (like Fraction of Champions). Also the "possession" wouldn't have worked as well when you fight them separately, so it would have to be a simple 2 phrase fight of phrase 1 normal, phrase 2 possessed, whereas current mechanics of the possession jumps around is much more interesting.

3-Megaera. Unique boss fight. I cannot see how a single cloud serpent got to become a multi-headed regenerating animal that looks nothing like a cloud serpent.

Probably the effect of living in a sewer (or affected by Anima?). But you should be able to see the resemblance, afterall the cloud serpents are snake like thingy, Megaera is a snake like thingy, just slimier, uglier, lost it's "beard", turned one-eyed, and got some horns. But that is what mutation do to you I guess.

5-Huge disappointment with Lei Shen... shouldn't there be an actual throne, given Lei Shen is a king after all?

May be there is. You know how we teleport from a higher platform onto the Lei Shen platform? May be his throne is at one of the other corner (on a higher platform), where we fought him is merely the little arena (most throne has a huge empty area in front of it, also imagine Frozen Throne) where we could see his subordinates gather or watch people fight? If so it would also make sense we fight him there.

7-Aren't there too few trash mobs between bosses?

I have no problem with the amount of trash generally (whether too little or not enough), but I would prefer if the trash has some sort of meaning and relation to the boss. Like Blade Lord in HoF, each of the instructor has 1 ability from the boss, or like Iron Qon, you are fighting through his generals and their pets to get to him. But there should at least be either a mechanical relation, or story relation, to the boss. Trash towards Horridon, Lei Shen and such just doesn't make sense. Horridon, the bridge and the mobs has no relation to the boss either in story or mechanics, it is like they are there for the sake of being there. Same for Lei Shen, there isn't large amount of trash, and they don't have similar mechanics to the boss (they should have made 4 generals each has an ability from a pillar or something so people can already learn of the mechanics from those). But nope, you just get 4 random and weak trash mobs, surely the King would have the stronger guards nearer to him but looks like Lei Shen is too confident so he throw all the big boss up front and only keep the weak trash just before him, recruitment must have been a bitch.

8-Don't you think we spend too much time in sewers

Agreed, I would have prefer we spending majority of the time in the palace, and explore different wings of it, instead of 2 area of the palace, a sewer and a forgotten place. The forgotten place and the sewer were OK, just it didn't have the epic feelings of a grand palace, when we are there to attack a grand palace.

---------- Post added 2013-05-06 at 04:02 PM ----------

Treating us like playthings doesn't mean he has to use nowadays derpy expressions ("c wut i did thar?"), because that's how i view them in my mind. I might be the only one, though.

yes it is only you. Blizzard is well known for like using famour internet quotes or general internet phenomenons and such. "c wut I did thar" is just one of those.

[Sierra85]

This is what i think!

1-Jin'rokh. Pretty cool guy, blue skinned because of thunder power. I remember him from Yojamba Isle mainly because he didn't speak like other trolls. I mean, a dire troll speaking is "rare", but he spoke of war without grammar errors, and that struck me. In ToT he's gone "I call da storm!" and "How you beat me?". Why is that? Does power make people dumb?

IIRC Jin'rokh was infused, binded you might say, others might say imbued... with magical lightning. As part of this conduit he took on some characteristics of the voodoo trolls that gave this power.

2-The Council of Elders. Cool fight as you get to battle troll leaders. Four powerful troll leaders... in a single fight. Why? Shouldn't they get more space for themselves only?

The troll leaders have all assembled in a council form for a meeting and we bust down the door interupting the state of the union speech from the spirit of gara'jal.

3-Megaera. Unique boss fight. I cannot see how a single cloud serpent got to become a multi-headed regenerating animal that looks nothing like a cloud serpent.

what lives in caves? serpenty bad things with multiple heads. it's also probably a cloud serpent that slept in the dark nasty cave and the toxic radiation ooze in the cave morphed it, similar to teenage mutant ninja turtles.

4-Primordius. I found him to be a cool character. You can feel his pain in his words. However, i can't see... why our mutated form during the encounter is a Saurok?

We take on the form of a saurok when we are fully mutated by the little oozes that are on the outer edge of the room. They are his creation. He could probably provide you with the chemical breakdown of what they are and why they mutate us, but he's probably too evil and busy & or dead this week to communicate his reasons. Suspension of belief is required i think.

5-Huge disappointment with Lei Shen. When i first turned into a spark to get to his place i was like "damn, here we go!". It was terrible to see that square floating over nothingness with four big faces in the immediate distance. I expected to see a proper throne (you know, THRONE of Thunder). If the whole raid is referred to as Throne of Thunder, shouldn't there be an actual throne, given Lei Shen is a king after all? Why is he in that minuscule space?

The control panel that comes up during the transition phases is his throne. He docks into it to reign thunder.

6-Aren't Blizzard jokes getting out of hand? I believe they are. I mean, i don't mind Adele rolling in the deeps (try typing "Adele" on Wowhead!). That made me smile. But why, WHY does a boss like Durumu, an ancient being that knows only pain, say stuff like "See what i did there?" or " I'm keeping an eye on you."?

what would a giant eye say other than seeing puns. Evil people generally have a sense of humor as well. it's to be expected.

Aren't there too few trash mobs between bosses? Maybe that's the reason why bosses are so near each other, as there's nothing to fill the space between them.

The space inside instances is relative, it's like if you look at Naxxramas floating in northrend its tiny, but you zone in and its massive. Dr Who style. So while it may take you a few seconds to traverse the distance between bosses, in the real azeroth, it would've taken days. they reduce the size so your computer can handle it and so gameplay is more smooth.

8-Don't you think we spend too much time in sewers, depths, laboratories, bridges, arenas... while the actual palace begins with the second to last boss?

We should just use rogues mass stealth and walk past everything, but that wouldn't be very fun.

[Netherspark]

1-Jin'rokh

Retcon, or oversight in vanilla.

2-The Council of Elders.

Sul is not Zul. Throne of Thunder isn't a full Troll raid, there couldn't be enough space to fight them all one by one, and any future Troll raid would need space for Zandalari. A council of troll leaders makes sense, and council fights are a staple of raids.

3-Megaera

The Mogu experiment with flesh-shaping. Their creations are pretty much mutants.

4-Primordius.

Saurok are cool. Don't try to explain raid mechanics with lore.

5-Huge disappointment with Lei Shen.

That isnt his throne room. It's a place for him to perform his lightning stuff, the heart of the palace and a place he can spread his storm from.

7-Aren't there too few trash mobs between bosses?

People dont like spending hours killing trash. But ToT goes get emptier and emptier as you get further in...

8-Don't you think we spend too much time in sewers, depths, laboratories, bridges, arenas...

Yes. I agree.