1.3 million sub drop

[Glorious Leader]

Yes but the aspects of organized raiding is not the heart nor the point of this discussion, which to reiterate, is distinguishing the casual playstyle and the hardcore playstyle. Stop making this about something it isn't.

I didn't. The other guy sidetracked me. Again go back and read. YOu people keep avoiding the subject not me.

[Theodon]

My server is currently falling apart (Bloodhoof) and I believe the final 25 man raiding guild died a month or two ago. WoW servers are starting to feel like a bit of a ghost town. Recruiting is near-impossible because the game expanded to meet the needs of a larger subscriber base and also leave room for expansion, but now it's shrinking. If Blizzard doesn't do something about this then the social part of the game is going to become very hard to manage as guilds can't find recruits to make up for the losses. The game will devolve in to what social play LFR offers for raiders.

[Glorious Leader]

Jesus Christ. Do you want me to call it then spontaneous and planned? Would you understand then?

Sure you can call it hand of sarcasm. I don't care. It really isn't the point your just harping on it because you can't acknowledged that IV and NOXXIC aren't for hardcores and are by and large for casuals. Casuals use those sites and when you said that using IV makes you not a casual is dead wrong.

[Fagatronics]

Blizzard expects to have less subscribers at the end of the year than they do today.

Hmmmmmm, well Q1 ended officially March 31st. You think they have sub numbers right now, as in May 8th, that are significantly lower and that's why they said this?

[APKMNPVE]

First Post Long Time Reader. I'm casual since Wrath played since vanilla release.

I had to face it this game was never worthy busting the ass I sat on to play it when it wasn't gonna pay back past a feeling of well that was fun. I'm surprised the game keeps over 5m subs. As some pointed out it's not age as much as it's not 2007 or w/e anymore and better games are there for people not willing to throw much of their life and money at WoW even casually. I feel like this game has become a needy pet or friend or something to keep up with instead of something fun. Something always demands attention if you take in the content more. If you got the means to normal + raid now that's good for you. I don't hate on that. There is a lack of content that doesn't demand of you IF you aren't the type.

This game isn't explained well enough for new players or long term players who are back and have to learn the class. Certainly not in 20 levels of free time or w/e they do now. Heroic 5 Mans were supposed to be what casual players could do and goal and gear from. Scenarios are capable of that but not without more to it. Start with quest lines like a scenario quest leads to you on level ques up for it. you pass. then you take on a normal 5 man. pass it. then you get one when it's of your level to heroic versions and improve your rewards. Try something mixing it in with pvp and pet battles and Maybe LFR sells it self to be the limit of casual play style IF you guide the players better.

With MOP Blizzard wove to many parts of the game to reel into raiding. That's not the solution to the problem play base clearly doesn't want to do (raiding) and was told by Blizzard that's what we're doing in MOP. It's great Blizzard plans to improve return players but if they return and see pvp for pay and more raiding to keep up with they won't stay. Even with redesigned graphic or w/e else they pull out of their hats. Maybe if they freed up some of the game functions they want to be casual I can see that helping a lot but good luck with WoW's rep to general public young or old still a negative. IN the last month I've noticed my server pop in MOP Lands dropping more and more. Now it's like Tuesdays and Wednesdays get your work in. Do more? f that I'll do something else until next reset that isn't logged in to WoW.

Also Blizzard got to greedy arrogant and content with their boastful titles and total numbers. Like Hollywood, players only love you for so long and then you're uphill without evolving properly lucky to get a B rating. FYI I still sub but like the numbers said leaving for months at a time and rejoining and leaving is the way I keep. Part of me wonders why they bother with a WoW Movie I'm sure they got the numbers behind it being worth it (maybe) but maybe Blizzard can magic up something massively updated all around . I don't have faith in them to keep paying out for an answers later. WoW is like Nu Metal now a days. Sure some stand by it as the best but the heyday is long past. Bringing it back is kind of funny stunting. Get off my..your lawn..or something.

[Vankrys]

I'm not being dense, I just don't accept that's the only part about organized raiding that makes it organized. I mean I could go on open raid and find a raid right now. Does that mean it's not organized? Scheduling is the smallest part of being an organized raid.

again, you are still confused i think.

by organised, we don't mean filling role, naming a lead, or playing as a team using strat. If it's what you meant, then even casual can be organized raid group.

i shouldn't have used that word, what i meant is that if you make time in your life schedule to dedicate to the game, it is no longer simple casual gaming. Simple as that. You dedicated time for the game, you are a dedicated gamer. Maybe on the light side, only once a week, but still dedicated.

if you just log tonight and look for a pug, or join LFR, but it wasn't really planed in advance, you have time tonight and you wanna play, i call that casual gaming.

[Deleted]

I didn't. The other guy sidetracked me. Again go back and read. YOu people keep avoiding the subject not me.

Look, casual approach is not to be on forums debating about sub losses, going to third party sites and read about tactics, watching youtube videos with strategies or commit to weekly schedule to participate in organized guild runs.

[nekobaka]

For the love of God. Organised playing means you play on a schedule and you progress with same people. If you are casually playing then you are loging when ever you want and do what ever you want. You don't commit to a guild.

Then be more specific and call it scheduled raiding or guild raiding.

Just because something is scheduled doesnt mean it is absolutely hardcore. There are people who like stability in their lives. By scheduling things with players you have the potential to reduce the game play time needed to perform something which in turn means less time invested in a game and more time to do other real life activities. Does scheduling b-ball with your friends every wednesday night make you a hardcore b-ball player?

[Conscious]

Hmmmmmm, well Q1 ended officially March 31st. You think they have sub numbers right now, as in May 8th, that are significantly lower and that's why they said this?

I actually didn't even think of that.

There's a good possibility.

[Selvari7]

Another problem with this game is the time required to clear content. It is more than possible to do well clearing content on two days a week schedule yet literally all the good guilds on my server are 3 or 4 days a week raiding. Who has the time to dedicate half the nights of their week to a game. It's really ridiculous and maybe Blizz should look into reducing the difficulty on normal.

[Glorious Leader]

Look, casual approach is not to be on forums debating about sub losses, going to third party sites and read about tactics, watching youtube videos with strategies or commit to weekly schedule to participate in organized guild runs.

They're not reading about tactics. They're reading about how to play their character. Their not watching youtube videos but noxxic and icy veins don't even have vids. What they are doing is googling HOW TO PLAY SHADOW PRIEST and getting IV and NOXXXIC pop up on their websites. Actually I would potentially argue that given how lei shen and some of the bosses are in lfr they may even be reading tactics to. that may be less true than their own character classes but the over all point stands. Casuals can use google to.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 01:31 AM ----------

again, you are still confused i think.

by organised, we don't mean filling role, naming a lead, or playing as a team using strat. If it's what you meant, then even casual can be organized raid group.

i shouldn't have used that word, what i meant is that if you make time in your life schedule to dedicate to the game, it is no longer simple casual gaming. Simple as that. You dedicated time for the game, you are a dedicated gamer. Maybe on the light side, only once a week, but still dedicated.

if you just log tonight and look for a pug, or join LFR, but it wasn't really planed in advance, you have time tonight and you wanna play, i call that casual gaming.

Yea casuals can be organized raid groups. I don't understand what the problem is. I mean beer league is casual baseball but it's still scheduled isn't it? I'm not the one with the confusion here. You people have to limited a view of casual. I think our raid group is EXTREMELY casual for 4-5 hours but I also think players who also log for one hour are also casual. just to a different degree. Actually even the player who logs for one hour still want's to know how to play his class so he watches a video or googles IV or whatever.

[Deleted]

Then be more specific and call it scheduled raiding or guild raiding.

Just because something is scheduled doesnt mean it is absolutely hardcore. There are people who like stability in their lives. By scheduling things with players you have the potential to reduce the game play time needed to perform something which in turn means less time invested in a game and more time to do other real life activities. Does scheduling b-ball with your friends every wednesday night make you a hardcore b-ball player?

I never said anything about hardcore playing. I am not hardcore player and yet I don't see myself as casual. There are people who are in middle - not casual nor hardcore.

And casual - "Occurring by chance", "Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals", "Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant".

[Glorious Leader]

I never said anything about hardcore playing. I am not hardcore player and yet I don't see myself as casual. There are people who are in middle - not casual nor hardcore.

And this expansion has done a ridiculous disservice to them. Like I said I consider my guild casuals but were more on the medium end of the spectrum I guess. The middle class of raiding and world of warcraft in general. Well we got our ass handed to us this expac and this tier in particular.

[sandmoth12]

So much noise and static in this thread it is no wonder blizzard doesn't know which way to go. The problem is, and have been saying this for awhile, the players they do not know what they want as a whole. They are a divided mess and really do not know what is best for themselves.

[Osmeric]

I seiously can't understand how people is still stuck on this boss. granted we used 20 wipes back in the day before we got it but seriously its such a faceroll fight.

You don't need to understand "why", you just need to now "that they are".

Jin'Rokh: 24,703
Horridon: 18,292

26% of guilds that have killed JR have failed to down Horridon.

(and the number of guilds that have downed JR is nothing to write home about, more than two months into the tier.)

[Daagar]

Hmmmmmm, well Q1 ended officially March 31st. You think they have sub numbers right now, as in May 8th, that are significantly lower and that's why they said this?

No, they simply won't have another expansion out this year. Players drop during lulls in content, and come back after major patches/expansions. The expectation of lower numbers at the end of this year means no big push around that time.

[Armourboy]

My server is currently falling apart (Bloodhoof) and I believe the final 25 man raiding guild died a month or two ago. WoW servers are starting to feel like a bit of a ghost town. Recruiting is near-impossible because the game expanded to meet the needs of a larger subscriber base and also leave room for expansion, but now it's shrinking. If Blizzard doesn't do something about this then the social part of the game is going to become very hard to manage as guilds can't find recruits to make up for the losses. The game will devolve in to what social play LFR offers for raiders.

I will agree with this, whether Blizzard likes it or not, they are going to need to start consolidating servers very soon or they are going to find themselves in the same mess that SWTOR found itself in.

[Vankrys]

They're not reading about tactics. They're reading about how to play their character. Their not watching youtube videos but noxxic and icy veins don't even have vids. What they are doing is googling HOW TO PLAY SHADOW PRIEST and getting IV and NOXXXIC pop up on their websites. Actually I would potentially argue that given how lei shen and some of the bosses are in lfr they may even be reading tactics to. that may be less true than their own character classes but the over all point stands. Casuals can use google to.

---------- Post added 2013-05-09 at 01:31 AM ----------



Yea casuals can be organized raid groups. I don't understand what the problem is. I mean beer league is casual baseball but it's still scheduled isn't it?

i never argue that casual are bad player that don't know to play their class.
nevertheless, assuming that raiding on schedule, a light scedule 1-2 time a week, is casual raiding (for you, not me, but for sake of argument i will agree), so you add it to my little list a few page back about casual activity in MoP. so we are in agreement.

So there is one more item casual in the list
So the game is more casual than ever, isn't it?

so why casual player don't stay?

[Deleted]

And this expansion has done a ridiculous disservice to them. Like I said I consider my guild casuals but were more on the medium end of the spectrum I guess. The middle class of raiding and world of warcraft in general. Well we got our ass handed to us this expac and this tier in particular.

Finally to parts I can agree. We are the middle class of raiding. We aren't hardcores but we sure ain't casuals.

[God8010]

Not letting 10 and 25 saves in same week was first hit.

Removing skrims was second hit.

Generic content, rehashed mechanics is another hit.

Killing friend making buy turning dungeons and raids into burger king drive thru's is another hit.

Changing the focus on gear, making time served a huge scale in power and wreaking what little was left of pvp was another.

The game might still have good declining numbers but it has no heart. It's a matter of time.