Vegetarians and milk - a question to vegetarian people

[Powerogue]

Well, chicken eggs aren't living things.

No, people can't even get "pro-life/pro-choice" about this, the chicken eggs you eat will never hatch into a living creature. They're unfertilized.

Technically they are/were. The egg will just never become a chicken, and for some reason that's the line some people draw. Plants are living things too, and we eat them.

I've never really understood the point of vegetarianism. Animals eat animals, animals eat plants, plants eat animals (venus fly traps), we eat plants, and we can't eat the animals, even though we're omnivores. Why?

[Dasffion]

Commercial Free range chickens are a joke and if you're paying a lot more for those eggs don't throw away your money

This is the entire definition of Free Range by the USDA

FREE RANGE or FREE ROAMING:
Producers must demonstrate to the Agency that the poultry has been allowed access to the outside.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...ms/index.asp#4

No requirements on how much area they have to roam in or how long they can be outside. They can give them access to a 2x2 area outside for 10 minutes a day and it would be "Free Range".

Free-Range: While the USDA has defined the meaning of "free-range" for some poultry products, there are no standards in "free-range" egg production. Typically, free-range hens are uncaged inside barns and have some degree of outdoor access, but there are no requirements for the amount, duration or quality of outdoor access. Since they are not caged, they can engage in many natural behaviors such as nesting and foraging. There are no restrictions regarding what the birds can be fed. Beak cutting and forced molting through starvation are permitted. There is no third-party auditing.

[Deleted]

I never really understood the point of vegetarianism. Animals eat animals, animals eat plants, plants eat animals (venus fly traps), we eat plants, and we can't eat the animals, even though we're omnivores. Why?

For me personally, I am vegetarian because I don't want to take part in the killing of animals for the reasons of food, especially when I have other options available to me. In general I avoid anything that requires the killing of animals (although it's a bit hypocritical because I wear leather shoes?).

[Deleted]

and we can't eat the animals, even though we're omnivores. Why?

Well, you can. Some people simply choose not to.

Also, yes, animals eat animals, and some plants eat animals too.
The way they get their meat is completely different, though. They kill because they need to, and only as much as they need.
Humans on the other hand breed animals and keep them captured for their entire life just to kill and eat them in the end - there is nothing natural about that.
Also, people always say that we are developed way further than animals...but this also opens up a new opportunity for us: we can choose what we want to eat. We don't need to eat meat if we don't want to. We have plenty of other kinds of food available without having to fear starvation.

And to be honest, I really wonder how much more vegetarians would be out there if everyone would have to kill the animals they plan to eat theirselves. I bet a lot more.

My little sister is a vegetarian, and the rest of the family all eats meat. The thing is, she never tries to shove her way of life on us. When we have BBQ's she just buys tofu hotdogs for my dad to cook for her. The same can be said for us. We don't push our meat eating lifestyle on her. We all respect each others choices.

The same goes for me.
I'm vegan for about 7-8 years now, the rest of my family eats meat etc. - they eat what they want and I won't tell them not to; in return I expect them to accept my choice too.

[Kujako]

I like a veggie burger with cheddar cheese and bacon. Sure, the waiter gives me odd looks when I order, but it tastes great!

[Dasffion]

Well, you can. Some people simply choose not to.

Also, yes, animals eat animals, and some plants eat animals too.
The way they get their meat is completely different, though. They kill because they need to, and only as much as they need.
Humans on the other hand breed animals and keep them captured for their entire life just to kill and eat them in the end - there is nothing natural about that.
Also, people always say that we are developed way further than animals...but this also opens up a new opportunity for us: we can choose what we want to eat. We don't need to eat meat if we don't want to. We have plenty of other kinds of food available without having to fear starvation.

If the wild animal population could support hunting we wouldn't have to raise livestock for food, it can't though.

[Shennanigans]

A true vegan would not consume milk or even breast milk. There are many forms of vegaterians there is lot more flexibility in what they choose to eat.

[Lomak]

Well, you can. Some people simply choose not to.

Also, yes, animals eat animals, and some plants eat animals too.
The way they get their meat is completely different, though. They kill because they need to, and only as much as they need.
Humans on the other hand breed animals and keep them captured for their entire life just to kill and eat them in the end - there is nothing natural about that.
Also, people always say that we are developed way further than animals...but this also opens up a new opportunity for us: we can choose what we want to eat. We don't need to eat meat if we don't want to. We have plenty of other kinds of food available without having to fear starvation.

And to be honest, I really wonder how much more vegetarians would be out there if everyone would have to kill the animals they plan to eat theirselves. I bet a lot more.


The same goes for me.
I'm vegan for about 7-8 years now, the rest of my family eats meat etc. - they eat what they want and I won't tell them not to; in return I expect them to accept my choice too.

You ignorant hippies crack me up.

On one hand you talk about how people dont "need to eat meat to survive".

What kind of point exactly are you trying to make ? You and me also don't need to spend time on a computer chatting on a video game forum but we do that. I don't NEED to do a lot of things that I happen to do, but I do them, because I enjoy them. I'm going to go to my butcher after work, have him give me a pound of ground chuck, and I'm going to pan fry that hamburger meat, then add some bacon to it. Not because I need to , but *gasp because I want to , I can.

Saying that "raising livestock to slaughter for food is not natural" is so idiotic I can't even process it. What part of the human evolution do you think lead us to the practice of keeping a stable food supply at easy access.

Fucking hippies.

Infracted

[Deleted]

Not because I need to , but *gasp because I want to , I can.

Like I said, nobody can and will bar you from buying/eating your meat - it's your choice. If you want to, go ahead.
But you also have to accept that there are people who don't agree with it, and won't do so theirselves.
Because they don't want to. Because they can come to this decision.
Also, I'm just as much allowed to express my opinion as everyone else is - and that's all I did. Not my fault that you obviously feel offended by it.

Thus I ask you: What point are you trying to make?
And spare your insults like "ignorant hippies".

[ChexMix]

It depends on why people are vegetarians/vegans. If they are that way because they feel that red meat is bad for them, then either milk would be fine. If they are vegetarians/vegans because they don't like how animals that are bred for meat are treated, then I would think they would have an aversion to milk as well, unless it is local and they know how the cows are treated.

As for breast milk, unless you are keeping women in a stable, milking them, and letting them graze all day, I can't see how it would be against vegan/vegetarian 'ideals'.

Best ever.

[Noradin]

[...]
The way they get their meat is completely different, though. They kill because they need to, and only as much as they need.
Humans on the other hand breed animals and keep them captured for their entire life just to kill and eat them in the end - there is nothing natural about that.
[...]
And to be honest, I really wonder how much more vegetarians would be out there if everyone would have to kill the animals they plan to eat theirselves. I bet a lot more.
[...]

You'd be surprised...

[Simulacrum]

Vegan isn't something arbitrary where you can argue where the line goes. Vegan means NO ANIMAL BASED PRODUCTS. Humans are animals. Thus, no breastmilk.

So vegans can't breastfeed their children?

Must be hard to be a vegan, considering all the things that are often made with animal products. Stuff like safety gloves, glue, anything with gelatin in it (including beer, wine, juice, pill capsules, tablets, sponges, paper, copper, brass, explosives, bullets, paintballs, plaster, cork, photographic film, x-ray film, etc), fertilizers, concrete, matches, book covers, wallpaper, train brakes, coloring pigments, shoes, sandpaper, countless medicines (like herparin, insulin, heart valves, etc), filtered cigarettes, lubricants, biofuel, soap, washing powder, fabric softener, paint, candles, shampoo, hair conditioner, foundation, crayons, toothpaste, antifreeze, paint brushes, BREAD... and countless other products.

I couldn't deal with having to research everything I ever use to make sure it contained no animal products in it.

That's, of course, ignoring the many disturbing philosophical problems with the position, such as how totally arbitrary it is ("no animal products for any reason" is arbitrary), or how logically inconsistent it is to be opposed to using those products oneself, but still being fine with it the products being used to one's benefit as long as it's other people using them on one's behalf.

[Deleted]

So vegans can't breastfeed their children?

Must be hard to be a vegan, considering all the things that are often made with animal products. Stuff like safety gloves, glue, anything with gelatin in it (including beer, wine, juice, pill capsules, tablets, sponges, paper, copper, brass, explosives, bullets, paintballs, plaster, cork, photographic film, x-ray film, etc), fertilizers, concrete, matches, book covers, wallpaper, train brakes, coloring pigments, shoes, sandpaper, countless medicines (like herparin, insulin, heart valves, etc), filtered cigarettes, lubricants, biofuel, soap, washing powder, fabric softener, paint, candles, shampoo, hair conditioner, foundation, crayons, toothpaste, antifreeze, paint brushes, BREAD... and countless other products.

I couldn't deal with having to research everything I ever use to make sure it contained no animal products in it.

That's, of course, ignoring the many disturbing philosophical problems with the position, such as how totally arbitrary it is ("no animal products for any reason" is arbitrary), or how logically inconsistent it is to be opposed to using those products oneself, but still being fine with it the products being used to one's benefit as long as it's other people using them on one's behalf.

One with nature maaaaaan, one with natuuuuuurrrrrrrreee.

[Elegiac]

One with nature maaaaaan, one with natuuuuuurrrrrrrreee.

Vegans are annoying.

[FathomFear]

Vegans are annoying.

Kind of difficult to group all vegans together. People are vegans for different reasons. I've maintained a vegan diet strictly for health reasons. I don't have any moral objections to eating meat at all.

[Lomak]

lol "I deny my body proper nutrients from an actual food source so that I can take a multi vitamin instead , strictly for health reasons"

And vegans wonder why nobody likes them.

[Curanhadin]

wait they eat eggs? then whats stopping theme from eating chicken, I mean is it not just as cruel

You realize eggs you buy would never become baby chickens right? chickens layeggs all the time unless they are fertilized they are never anything more then a shell with the nutrience for the nonexistant chick.

[Deleted]

And vegans wonder why nobody likes them.

I know a lot of people that like vegans. 'Nobody' isn't exactly true.

[StationaryHawk]

I just hope that the vegetarians who are such due to not wanting to contribute to the killing of animals, yet still eat eggs and drink milk, pay attention to where they get those products from.

[Lomak]

I know a lot of people that like vegans. 'Nobody' isn't exactly true.

Nice try buddy but other vegans don't count. You can stop huggin my nuts now. I dont care that it's your only source of protein.