4th raid difficulty, Easy Mode, should it happen?

[Deleted]

Lich King 10M N was not harder than Gunship 25M H

And anyway, if you consider it was, it was also wrong.

You are comparing 10 man versus 25 man. You should compare 10N vs 10H and 25N vs 25H.

It isn't wrong because simply Lich King on normal had more mechanics then Gunship on Heroic.

[Dreknar20]

Why cant be considered raiders? Because you dont like them? Such people killed normal raids bosses in previous tiers and have as much right to be callled raiders as you do.

giving up at any chance of failure is not an attitude that will get you very far in raiding

[anaxie]

Why cant be considered raiders? Because you dont like them? Such people killed normal raids bosses in previous tiers and have as much right to be callled raiders as you do.

You need to climb down from that high horse.

You need to quit looking at his horse. It isn't yours now shoo.

[Ragashii]

There are plenty of guilds or even PuGs that look for fresh runs.

Not without an achievement or 500+ gear they don't. The only pug runs I see kill the first boss and then everyone leaves.

You need to quit looking at his horse. It isn't yours now shoo.

You need to quit looking at normal modes it isn't yours now shoo.

[Crashdummy]

You are comparing 10 man versus 25 man. You should compare 10N vs 10H and 25N vs 25H.

It isn't wrong because simply Lich King on normal had more mechanics then Gunship on Heroic.

No, im comparing the easier normal to the harder heroic, just like i am doing now with the current setup.

[Calaba]

If people are saying we need another version of raid because normal is too hard, well, what is too hard? Failed to kill it on the first attempt? Second attempt? Fifth attempt?

In the case of Horridon, the 40th attempt, then giving up because we clearly didn't have the DPS to NOT get overwhelmed by adds by the 3rd gate. This wasn't a mechanics issue - just the boss was overtuned for our gear. You only need to check wowprogress to see this wasn't just us either.

There does come a point where, after no progression is made, people WILL just give up. We hit the LFRs, killed the first boss a few times on normal, got some valor gear, then after a month tried again and practically facerolled the boss with better gear.

The gap between LFR and 10 man normal is too massive. A middle ground is needed where progress can be made. The same goes for going from 2 X 10 man raids to 25mans.

[anaxie]

Not without an achievement or 500+ gear they don't. The only pug runs I see kill the first boss and then everyone leaves.

That is entirely your problem. Solution? move off the crap server onto Mal'ganis. BAM cutting edge pug raiding just at your fingertips. Well unless you stamp your feet and leave if they wipe on anything.

[Crashdummy]

giving up at any chance of failure is not an attitude that will get you very far in raiding

You are not giving up any chance of failure. You still dont get it. Again, DIFFICULTY IS SUBJECTIVE, nerfed normals would STILL be a challenge for the average raider, as much challenge as it was for Paragon the heroic bosses.

Right now, Normal is too hard for them.

[Dreknar20]

Not without an achievement or 500+ gear they don't. The only pug runs I see kill the first boss and then everyone leaves.

then look for different groups

My current guild picked up a tank that had quit for an extended time and had only come back. Consider us a semi-hardcore guild and yet that new tank was able to hold his own. Wanna know why? Because he cared enough to not remain a baddie.

[Maelstrom51]

Lich King 10M N was not harder than Gunship 25M H

And anyway, if you consider it was, it was also wrong.

Wowprogress disagrees:

http://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/39
http://www.wowprogress.com/achievement/4530

Twice as many guilds killed H Gunship 25 than N Lich King 10. Also note that there were significantly more 10 man raids than 25 man raids.

[Deleted]

Not without an achievement or 500+ gear they don't. The only pug runs I see kill the first boss and then everyone leaves.

You need to quit looking at normal modes it isn't yours now shoo.

That was always the case. Well, in WRATH they called it gearscore. Fresh toon without that fake achievement addon and without appropriate gear couldn't get into PuG.

[anaxie]

No, im comparing the easier normal to the harder heroic, just like i am doing now with the current setup.

Last boss on Normal Similar to First boss on heroic and then the difficulty inclines on Heroic. How is anything wrong with that. Seems pretty legitamate difficulty curb to me. Why should you care about heroics anyhow that isn't content you run.

[Ragashii]

That is entirely your problem. Solution? move off the crap server onto Mal'ganis. BAM cutting edge pug raiding just at your fingertips. Well unless you stamp your feet and leave if they wipe on anything.

I'm on Illidan with all the competitive chinese people. They want them chieves and that gear. Hope you killed lei shin or you aren't going to this pug.

That was always the case. Well, in WRATH they called it gearscore. Fresh toon without that fake achievement addon and without appropriate gear couldn't get into PuG.

That's why GDKP runs were awesome and they happened all the time. Haven't seen one since.

[Dreknar20]

I'm on Illidan with all the competitive chinese people. They want them chieves and that gear. Hope you killed lei shin or you aren't going to this pug.

LF a guild then. There are plenty always lookin for recruits on the forums and what not.

[anaxie]

That was always the case. Well, in WRATH they called it gearscore. Fresh toon without that fake achievement addon and without appropriate gear couldn't get into PuG.

He likes to be delusional. Pretty sure he didn't do well in Ulduar either but that was fairly brief so he may of forgotten the time it was out before ToC launched.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 01:21 AM ----------

I'm on Illidan with all the competitive chinese people. They want them chieves and that gear. Hope you killed lei shin or you aren't going to this pug.

That's why GDKP runs were awesome and they happened all the time. Haven't seen one since.

No offense but if you cannot get into a pug on a capped server like Illidan that means you need to improve. Might I suggest spending this time on forums learning instead of crying.

[thigan]

I still haven't seen a valid reason not to add an easier version of normal mode.

You guys just keep saying "there is already an easy setting it's called LFR" except LFR isn't easy, it's a joke.

I think you miss the memo here, what mechanic from normal mode is missing in LFR?

LFR is not something that requires a group or coordination. The reason bads are quitting in droves is because there is nothing in the game that takes social interaction, that they can actually accomplish.

Agree, want to accept it or not, that is what people do, there is people that just leaves, the question is, who cares? do you? I do? Blizzard do? the people arguing here do? I kind of do, that is why I think something should be done.

If people are saying we need another version of raid because normal is too hard, well, what is too hard? Failed to kill it on the first attempt? Second attempt? Fifth attempt?

If people just gives up after a few wipes on a boss and complain about it being too hard, then maybe they need to think if raiding is really what they should be doing. Blizzard can only bend backward so much to accommodates its customer before what they do is considered to be a major joke. And there are section of the community already consider a lot of things Blizzard's had done to be be a major and have quite vocal about it.

That sounds really good, except that it fails the reality checks, people leaves the game when they can't, not everybody, maybe not you, not me, but enough people. Second thing it fails is that, we can accept that the game wants you go to ToT, this is your end game, no matter how good, bad, casual or hardcore, go to ToT is the message from the game, in PVE there is only one direction right now, then IF a big enough segment of the playerbase doesn't have an appropriate ToT for them, I think for the good of the game, it should be created.

How many people do you think try and then give up because they don't get anywhere? I think a lot of people care to raid and that's why LFR exists. But it does all the wrong things. It teaches you nothing, and it rewards you with very little. If you're playing a game and it's too hard you give yourself more lives or lower the difficulty until you get used to the game or improve. But where does the "improvement" come from in LFR? If you go to LFR because you are bad, you will stay bad. Don't you think there's a problem with that? The game needs more competent raiders, not less.

Ah sorry, just bubble just break up. YOU need more competent raiders, not the game. The game needs players first and foremost. You may want people to improve, but if they don't want to, they wont do it just because you put some pixels behind the "effort" of getting better, they just quit and stop playing, is in their nature to want to play better or don't want to.

There is nothing wrong with being a bad player; if someone doesn't want to improve, he is in his right, he won't be playing with you or with me, because we don't want to play with that kind of players most of the time, absolutely, but the game needs everybody that wants to play and respects his peers. Sadly Blizzard created an environment where you need to go to ToT, so maybe a new difficulty level can engage more players into that environment.

[Ragashii]

LF a guild then. There are plenty always lookin for recruits on the forums and what not.

I'm not good enough to raid these 10 mans. I know this, so I don't. There was a time when I could do 10 mans though. My guild collapsed in Cataclysm in the first raiding tier. But LFR doesn't cut it for me, so I run 5 mans and scenarios to cap valor. Woo.

[anaxie]

You need to quit looking at normal modes it isn't yours now shoo.

Of course it's not mine. All my gear comes from heroics silly.

I think you miss the memo here, what mechanic from normal mode is missing in LFR?

Not sure maybe all the damage being set from near fatal to slight tickle levels?

[Deleted]

That's why GDKP runs were awesome and they happened all the time. Haven't seen one since.

LFR is actually very similar to GDKP runs. You have players with good gear who want to earn cash and they carry people with bad gear who are willing to pay.
LFR = good players carrying bad players.
I must admit I have not seen many GDKP runs but they are were mostly made by players in good guilds when progress was over. We are only at 2 months in ToT. ICC was how long - a year?

[Dreknar20]

, they wont do it just because you put some pixels behind the "effort" of getting better, they just quit and stop playing, is in their nature to want to play better or don't want to..

Id say those "pixels" are a big motivation for why I aimed for certain things.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 01:27 AM ----------

I'm not good enough to raid these 10 mans. I know this, so I don't. .

So you have no desire to run normal mode yet complain that you cant?