Legacy Realms - What's your verdict

[MoanaLisa]

I'd like to know how large the server software for WoW is, so I can get an idea for how much all those builds together would take up. Anyway, surely they would at least keep major revisions, like the versions released with large patches?

We've discussed private servers a bit, the impression I've got is that a lot of people want to pay for a Blizzard run legacy server because that would mean fewer bugs, better customer service, etc. People don't play on vanilla/TBC private servers because they're free, more because they're the only place that offers classic WoW gameplay.

The problem is not so much the size of the build. The real task is preserving every element of the environment that it runs in as well. I alluded to that in my other post but it's not even close to enough to just have the code for the build. You have to have:

1. OS version, patch and build (for the correct flavor of Unix if that's what it runs on)
2. Database build (with associated OS and 3rd party tools that match)
3. Compatible or compliant hardware that will deliver the I/O in precisely the right way so I/O tuning remains appropriate. Not too slow or fast which can lead to overflow issues.
4. Client build which in itself has different requirements depending on age and OS (This they likely do have).
5. Correct builds for 3rd party tools for code and object maintenance (C/C++/whatever else they use), development and modification.
6. Miscellaneous other things that must be in sync with all of the above to bring it up in a professional way and maintain it properly.

I think that's the thing that most people don't understand although they should. You can't run a lot of DOS games easily in Windows 7 and this is that on a much larger and immensely more complicated scale. And that's assuming that the 'engine' that people like to talk about is considered as part of the server piece. It doesn't necessarily need to work that way because I can easily imagine minor changes to the engine that might not require a different game/client build (but likely in reality would).

I won't go into my real life very much but my current gig is auditing IT departments that are trying to either qualify or maintain compliance for ISO/JSOX certification. What we're talking about here is part and parcel of that. The idea frequently expressed that small/large IT shops--usually running anywhere from a few to dozens if not hundreds of servers many on different OS's and versions of OS's, with hundreds if not thousands of apps large and small, both inhouse and externally created all of different ages, many of which were developed in languages ranging from C, C++, Java, various versions of Basic, well the list goes on all the way back to FORTRAN and COBOL, with many of them talking or exchanging information with one another--can roll back to any previous IT environment easily is quite false. So too, this. Just my two cents based on being in the enterprise application business for a long time.

EDIT: Sorry for the length and tangled-up language. It's really a subject for a 20-page paper and suffers from too much compression. But I think I've conveyed the idea. At least a little bit.

[brunnor]

A single legacy server like you are saying wouldn't work at all. Content would finish itself at sometime and people would get bored and quit then.

My idea for a legacy server would be something like EQ's. They pretty much just re-release the game on a new server. It starts at the 0.0 patch(or was it 1.0, never remember) and progresses naturally as the game did on release. So you'd have MC only for a bit, then the BWL patch, ZG patch etc etc, AQ gates would happen, then Naxx. TBC would come out however long after release it did the first time. All balancing patches and such would be the same as the first go around and all fixes would come at the same "time" they did last time.

It would pretty much just be a "new" WoW. They could start a new one every year so people could pick up and restart if they liked only vanilla or go on with the game to TBC/Wrath/Cata/MoP if they wanted.

[Ciddy]

It might be fun for a bit, but I think that would wear off pretty quickly. As much as I liked TBC, I would've gotten bored with the game and quit long ago if we had nothing to do but Black Temple/Sunwell with no new content changes whatsoever for the last 6 years.

[Darsithis]

The problem is not so much the size of the build. The real task is preserving every element of the environment that it runs in as well. I alluded to that in my other post but it's not even close to enough to just have the code for the build. You have to have:

1. OS version, patch and build (for the correct flavor of Unix if that's what it runs on)
2. Database build (with associated OS and 3rd party tools that match)
3. Compatible or compliant hardware that will deliver the I/O in precisely the right way so I/O tuning remains appropriate. Not too slow or fast which can lead to overflow issues.
4. Client build which in itself has different requirements depending on age and OS (This they likely do have).
5. Correct builds for 3rd party tools for code and object maintenance (C/C++/whatever else they use), development and modification.
6. Miscellaneous other things that must be in sync with all of the above to bring it up in a professional way and maintain it properly.

I think that's the thing that most people don't understand although they should. You can't run a lot of DOS games easily in Windows 7 and this is that on a much larger and immensely more complicated scale. And that's assuming that the 'engine' that people like to talk about is considered as part of the server piece. It doesn't necessarily need to work that way because I can easily imagine minor changes to the engine that might not require a different game/client build (but likely in reality would).

I won't go into my real life very much but my current gig is auditing IT departments that are trying to either qualify or maintain compliance for ISO/JSOX certification. What we're talking about here is part and parcel of that. The idea frequently expressed that small/large IT shops--usually running anywhere from a few to dozens if not hundreds of servers many on different OS's and versions of OS's, with hundreds if not thousands of apps large and small, both inhouse and externally created all of different ages, many of which were developed in languages ranging from C, C++, Java, various versions of Basic, well the list goes on all the way back to FORTRAN and COBOL, with many of them talking or exchanging information with one another--can roll back to any previous IT environment easily is quite false. So too, this. Just my two cents based on being in the enterprise application business for a long time.

EDIT: Sorry for the length and tangled-up language. It's really a subject for a 20-page paper and suffers from too much compression. But I think I've conveyed the idea. At least a little bit.

To echo this, here is an example - there are two ways through the .NET Framework to close a socket with built-in methods. One way works on operating systems post Windows 2000, the other works in Windows 2000 and earlier. Imagine the annoyance and difficulty of reproducing old OS's to support deprecated components from 10 years ago.

[nyc81991]

people already complain about lack of content and the time being too long between content patches.
do you think anyone would be happy on a realm without any content patches?

i really don´t get it, the forums were/are full of people who hated running icc/ds for ~1year and suddenly there are a lot of people who´d love to do just that with vanilla/bc/wotlk/cata raids.

Some people would play on old realms just for PvP, others would play to experience the raid content.

Sure, people might get bored of it but others would enjoy it. Everyone is different.

[Noorri]

The amount of developer time required to reengineer everything would not be worth it at all.

If they did make legacy servers I would probably try it out a bit, but I wouldn't stay for long. I still remember all the broken crap from BC.

[Narmakh]

oh pleasepleaseplease bring back at least vanilla or BC realms i would literally shut up and let you take my money!

[Steggy]

Sorry for my ignorance here, but could someone please explain to me what a "Legacy" realm is?

[Acidd06]

you can do this for free right now and plenty of people do. I dont think many people would come back just for it to be "legit"

[chazus]

Fun Fact: 10 out of 10 threads like these get locked!

[Narmakh]

Sorry for my ignorance here, but could someone please explain to me what a "Legacy" realm is?

i believe its the Resurrection of an oldschool server i may be wrong but that what it seems like to me

vanilla or BC all the way!

(sorry for multiple post im new at this not sure if that other one was linked to you )

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 02:35 AM ----------

The amount of developer time required to reengineer everything would not be worth it at all.

If they did make legacy servers I would probably try it out a bit, but I wouldn't stay for long. I still remember all the broken crap from BC.

why would they re-engineer the content i highly doubt they would just scrap what they had previously, but then again i have no idea of what they do.

[Zoma]

Fun Fact: 10 out of 10 threads like these get locked!

This one already was locked twice. Sunshine unlocked it

[Tauren]

i always wanted these realms but then i realize all their realms would be the shit versions. 2.4.3 for tbc and 3.5.5 for wrath or 1.12 for vanilla

[Arbs]

I would play both, I picked Legacy TBC realm cause I like the way the classes (Shaman, Druod) were in TBC honestly.

[Xyanide]

I don't understand how people can find these things more than just quick novelty ideas. You realize that nothing will EVER change and you'll be stuck with the same patches and shit forever right?

[Dietrik]

imagine running icc forever... was bad enough for the year we had it.

I think it would cause more people to leave when they switch to a legacy realm and then get bored cause there is no new content.

[Boricha]

I wouldn't fully switch to a legacy realm, but I would play a legacy realm. I started wow 1-2 weeks before TBC came out so I never really got to experience vanilla WoW. I would love to go back and try it, especially AV. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still play modern WoW far more though.

[Grummgug]

I would settle for the classic Alterac Valley. The one where the games lasted 2 days, you collect wolf hides / ram hides, summoned Lok / Ivus, etc. I miss that game. I still get the itch to play it. But it doesn't exist.

[Zaqwert]

I don't think anyone would expect a player to play on these realms indefinitely. People would probably subscribe, play for a few months to relive the good old days (or see an era before they started) and after 6'ish months move on.

But with the tens of millions of ex-WoW subscribers out there, even a small % of that would generate a tidy sum of money, provide Blizz could create such servers at a reasonable cost.

[Underwolf]

I don't think anyone would expect a player to play on these realms indefinitely. People would probably subscribe, play for a few months to relive the good old days (or see an era before they started) and after 6'ish months move on.

But with the tens of millions of ex-WoW subscribers out there, even a small % of that would generate a tidy sum of money, provide Blizz could create such servers at a reasonable cost.

Imo, that bold part in the quote above may actually be a very big obstacle in front of establishing legacy servers. Because, if such legacy servers receive a lot of subs it can be interpreted as Blizzard screwed up in the recent expansions (basically Cata and MoP), especially considering the large scale sub losses since the beginning of Cata. Keep in mind that Blizzard folks have jobs and careers to worry about, and they also need to worry about the relations with shareholders and investors.

The only way I can imagine legacy servers may become possible is if and when Blizzard gets so desperate (if for instance sub losses continue in large numbers and Titan does not become the next WoW in terms of attracting lots of players) that they may decide to disregard the risks of looking like they screwed up for the sake of the revenue they can get from legacy servers (a large pool of tens of millions of potential players).