LFR has to go

[Mortal Strike]

By that logic, why are you bothering raiding HM when you saw it all on Normal?

There's a difference. People raid heroic because they want the challenge or because they care about progression. People only raid LFR because they want gear or they want to see the content

[markdall]

If LFR was gone I wouldn't have 4pc T15 and I raid normal/heroics (we're 1/12 heroic, but hope to increase that soon.) Wearing 543 ilvl pants with 3 502 ilvl Tier pieces. LFR can stay, thanks.

[Punisher069]

There's a difference. People raid heroic because they want the challenge or because they care about progression. People only raid LFR because they want gear or they want to see the content

I in fact know people that raid heroic just for gear and getting bigger numbers, and I also have friends that raid normal/heroic just to see content. So the generalization you made is presumably based on the people you know. And in my case I have seen the opposite

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 07:36 PM ----------

If LFR was gone I wouldn't have 4pc T14 and I raid normal/heroics (we're 1/12 heroic, but hope to increase that soon.) Wearing 543 ilvl pants with 3 502 ilvl Tier pieces. LFR can stay, thanks.

My raid is not as far along as you but I do lfr to get any edge for progression.

[Seefer]

These threads have to go. Seriously.

Hardcore raiding has not been removed from game. Go do it and be joyful. Freaking out because people who don't treat the game like a full time job are seeing end content just makes you look like a jerk. Who cares what other people are doing? Do what YOU enjoy and move on.

Yeash.

Been removed? No, but it IS hard to recruit when people would prefer the road of least resistance which is LFR, and you don't need to treat it like a full time job to be a good raider, I raid 2 nights a week for crying out loud! Stop making excuses.

[Straton]

My only issue with LFR is that it's basically required to gear up efficiently for normal/heroic raiding. I miss 5 man dungeons have loot to help you catch up to normal raiding. I liked how t13 did it with both dungeons and LFR. You could choose which ones to do. Sure people still felt compelled to do LFR because it sped up the process. I think LFR is good for the playerbase but I want other means to catch up to Normal raiding because LFR feels like a 3 hour chore.

[nekobaka]

Seriously. One can just wonder what are the downsides. LFR gives players who got life outside wow effective way to gear up their chracters and get some sense of progression. After WotlK no-one wants to have that crappy underpowered blue gear.

Seriously why do players still promote this fallacy that having a life automatically denies one from ever being able to raid. One does not need to join a guild or commit to a schedule to raid. The choice to do such has the potential to make the gameplay experience more smooth and an efficient use of time to be grouped up with players who are at the same pace as you and are keeping the gear pool small facilitating faster progression and gearing compared to PuG raiding.

I recall many players who did not raid in Cata and yet had purple gear. In Classic and BC you did not have to raid to get purples. The color of the gear has not dictated how powerful it is for years, well except grays and whites.

These threads have to go. Seriously.

Hardcore raiding has not been removed from game. Go do it and be joyful. Freaking out because people who don't treat the game like a full time job are seeing end content just makes you look like a jerk. Who cares what other people are doing? Do what YOU enjoy and move on.

Yeash.

You want a thread to disappear and yet you bump it.

Odd how I had been seeing end game content for years while going to school, working, spending time with friends, going clubbing, seeing movies, and cooking dinner for the family. Raiding did not seem like a job to me. Perhaps because it is something I enjoy. Just like CC, it does not feel like a job to me unlike the many who complained about it in Cata.

Could'nt have said it better myself.

Seriously elitists mind your own damn business and let everyone enjoy their game. Or maybe we should just start QQ for blizzard to remove HC and Challenge modes does that sound fair? Really these threads are getting boring, every day the same routine on the forums. It's either how mop sucks or how LFR ruined the game. If you hate it dont play or find a way to influence blizzard to actually take some action against it, whining on the forums really wont do shit.

Threads asking for raid and all other challenging content to be removed have existed for years and there are players asking for normal and heroic mode raids to be removed as well. In Cata before LFR there was a number of players who wanted more five man content and demanded the gutting of raids. These players also wanted all raid gear to be on the vendors and be given at a guaranteed pace. LFR kind of gives those players the finger by making them raid for raid gear while placing them on an RNG gearing system. There are even players asking for all development on the PVP side of the game to stop.

[Cerus]

Pointless thread is pointless. Epics haven't been "epic" or really meaningful in any way since vanilla. It all went downhill in that regard with the heroic dungeon changes. WOTLK forward made epics even less epic so the term "welfare epic" really doesn't apply. It's just a color at this point. The names and item levels are all that really matter now.

[Mormolyce]

Seeing the instance is no longer an exclusive incentive to normals.

I see this as a good thing. In fact, it's explicitly what LFR was designed to do.

If you run NM or HM it should be because you want the best gear in the game, the achievements, the feeling of accomplishment, the challenge... not because you feel railroaded into it because you can't see the game's plot otherwise.

---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 01:48 AM ----------

My only issue with LFR is that it's basically required to gear up efficiently for normal/heroic raiding.

My guild cleared every tier of raiding in MoP on NM the week they were released, before LFR even came out. The first raid tier, MSV, we were in full dungeon blues - didn't even have enough VP to buy a single purple. We were hardly unique, hundreds of guilds do that every tier. You absolutely positively do not need a single piece of LFR gear to do NMs.

[Deleted]

Seriously why do players still promote this fallacy that having a life automatically denies one from ever being able to raid. One does not need to join a guild or commit to a schedule to raid. The choice to do such has the potential to make the gameplay experience more smooth and an efficient use of time to be grouped up with players who are at the same pace as you and are keeping the gear pool small facilitating faster progression and gearing compared to PuG raiding.

Yes I am amased to that apparently if you have a life you can't raid normal modes. You can't do organised stuff whatsoever.
But it is rather strange that I know people who do raid and have a life.
I also know people who do organised sports in real life while having a job, I mean wait a minute they go to football and play it with other people on a strict schedule. Every tuesday evening.

I don't know could be funny if there was something like looking for football in real life. I can't commit to a membership in the football club, because it has a weekly training, therefor I get teleported to a football match everytime I want to and have time for it in real life.
And yes I did it I compared playing a video game 1 evening a week to playing football with your soccer mates one time a week.

[khalltusk]

Seriously why do players still promote this fallacy that having a life automatically denies one from ever being able to raid. One does not need to join a guild or commit to a schedule to raid. The choice to do such has the potential to make the gameplay experience more smooth and an efficient use of time to be grouped up with players who are at the same pace as you and are keeping the gear pool small facilitating faster progression and gearing compared to PuG raiding.

I recall many players who did not raid in Cata and yet had purple gear. In Classic and BC you did not have to raid to get purples. The color of the gear has not dictated how powerful it is for years, well except grays and whites.

You want a thread to disappear and yet you bump it.

Odd how I had been seeing end game content for years while going to school, working, spending time with friends, going clubbing, seeing movies, and cooking dinner for the family. Raiding did not seem like a job to me. Perhaps because it is something I enjoy. Just like CC, it does not feel like a job to me unlike the many who complained about it in Cata.

Threads asking for raid and all other challenging content to be removed have existed for years and there are players asking for normal and heroic mode raids to be removed as well. In Cata before LFR there was a number of players who wanted more five man content and demanded the gutting of raids. These players also wanted all raid gear to be on the vendors and be given at a guaranteed pace. LFR kind of gives those players the finger by making them raid for raid gear while placing them on an RNG gearing system. There are even players asking for all development on the PVP side of the game to stop.

Most of what you said makes sense.

Asides the point that in Vanilla the only epics you could get were (outside raiding) BoE world drops, the rare items from the hard quests which required BOE drops from certain bosses/mobs or the upgraded dungeon gear. Other than that in Vanilla you HAD to raid to get epics (I discount PVP gear as thats an entirely different progression path) TBC fixed that to an extend with epics in 5mans being more easily dropped and 10man raiding being a bit more accessible. With badge gear they stepped it up again.

As for me, my free time is a bit erratic. I could find a guild to join and do normals in but I don't have it in me to go find one that suits my time. As its so all over the place and quite frankly the friends I have left in the game are more important to me so I will stay in this little guild and use LFR. It suits a purpose for people like me and many others (some people that use LFR are frankly not good enough for normal raiding)

[RoKPaNda]

We are already seeing huge losses. Looks like this business decision wasn't that smart at all

I said in the west, we haven't been seeing huge losses in the west. If it wasn't a smart business decision then pretty much almost every other upcoming MMO wouldn't be focusing on the casual gamers.

[Osmeric]

I said in the west, we haven't been seeing huge losses in the west.

They haven't said that. They said the majority of the 1.3M loss in Q1 was in the east, but that means up to 650K could have been lost in the west.

[DeadmanWalking]

Purple is no longer the gold standard to represent achievement and skill, now you look 3 pixels lower for the word ‘normal raid’ and ‘heroic raid’. Old timey Purple = Normal and Heroic Raid words.

Get over it, that train not only left but was replaced with an airplane and you guys are still pining over the lack of steam engines because they were so romantic back in the day. Now the only thing you need to recognize achievement and skill is the ability to read instead of recognizing shades of colors.

As for LFR, how do I decide if a player has skill if they don’t have raiding gear so they can join my guild and get raiding gear? If only there was something in the game that I can join with them to monitor their activity in a raid like environment at any time of day without needing my entire guild online or costing us a raid lock out on someone who didn’t have the skill to make it? What if it had -most- of the mechanics of a raid but was quick to get into and let me know if they could deal with the whirlwind run, knew about the disapearing floor, did the chains properly, put up good dps/healing numbers, mitigated damage properly, and didn’t run around screaming, “GOGOGOGOGOGOOOOOO” while pulling before the tank was ready? If only there was a tool like that in the game then I could determine if the player had skill and wasn’t actually making stuff up to get in my guild?

What if I could find a player at any time of day when we need a pugger that had good enough gear to not need to be carried to the loot they need and has a basic understanding of most of the mechanics?

You know, something where if someone was LOOKING FOR a RAID they could actually get it? Stick with me here, I think I am on to something here.....

[brunnor]

I said in the west, we haven't been seeing huge losses in the west. If it wasn't a smart business decision then pretty much almost every other upcoming MMO wouldn't be focusing on the casual gamers.

Even then, most of the WoW population is in the east. If they don't care about losing people in the east and trying to fix their game in their terms then they really are screwed. While we think we are the only important thing to the game, the east, at the last reasonable census, had us by at least 2:1 in population. They can't afford to lose the east as much as they can't afford to lose the west. They need a game that brings in all types of players. While I'm sure "the east" has a whole list of different problems than we do, we aren't exactly growing at any rate in the west.

[killidan]

""Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
Seeing the instance is no longer an exclusive incentive to normals.""

I see this as a good thing. In fact, it's explicitly what LFR was designed to do.

No, LFR is for giving people who can't/won't run normals/heroics easy loot. If it is all about seeing content, remove the loot and very very few will do LFR for "seeing content". It's all about getting easy purpz.