Woman spends 8 months in jail in the UAE even if she was raped

[Elegiac]

The UAE is vital to the economy of most of the United States & Europe. The Middle-East is a very different world, many won't deal with westerners, so you need people who've got a good balance between Western & Middle-Eastern Society. This is what the UAE has done very successfully, but in order to do that, they must co-operate with both sides of the table.

You ask them to start being more Western, they'll lose touch with the Middle-Eastern Businesses, and I dread to think of how many Billions would be lost because of it, and the deals go to China or Russia.

I call bullshit. Historically the most successful mercantile states have been the more socially permissive ones; primarily because tolerance makes for an eclectic society that attracts investors from a wide variety of locations.

And using this as an excuse for rather blatant civil rights abuses is a pretty pathetic argument.

[Hyve]

I call bullshit. Historically the most successful mercantile states have been the more socially permissive ones; primarily because tolerance makes for an eclectic society that attracts investors from a wide variety of locations.

And using this as an excuse for rather blatant civil rights abuses is a pretty pathetic argument.

And what experience and foundation do you have to call bullshit to this? Years of international trading through the UAE? No? Oh... Okay. Shush then!

[habitsbreaker]

i think its the root too all evil.

these north Koreans must be very religious

[Jackmoves]

The UAE is vital to the economy of most of the United States & Europe. The Middle-East is a very different world, many won't deal with westerners, so you need people who've got a good balance between Western & Middle-Eastern Society. This is what the UAE has done very successfully, but in order to do that, they must co-operate with both sides of the table.

You ask them to start being more Western, they'll lose touch with the Middle-Eastern Businesses, and I dread to think of how many Billions would be lost because of it, and the deals go to China or Russia.

I'm well aware mate, just saying we are usually not expressing our concerns with these kind of issues sufficiently. I realize thats part of the game as far as diplomacy goes but it doesn't make it any less hypocritical on our parts.

[Elegiac]

And what experience and foundation do you have to call bullshit to this? Years of international trading through the UAE? No? Oh... Okay. Shush then!

Very droll.

For example, Rome during the 17th Century. Despite being the heart of Roman Catholicism, during an era of particularly brutal religious conflict between Catholic and Protestantism, Rome was one of the most permissive cities in Europe. For the simple reason that permissiveness and toleration brought in pilgrims, tourists, and thus income. Similarly, Amsterdam in the same period. The city government upheld tolerance and reaped the benefits of an eclectic, mercantile society.

[Hyve]

I'm well aware mate, just saying we are usually not expressing our concerns with these kind of issues sufficiently. I realize thats part of the game as far as diplomacy goes but it doesn't make it any less hypocritical on our parts.

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 02:28 PM ----------

Very droll.

Not drool. Fact. If you've got zero experience in the field, or are not involved directly in the people who are, how can you have a valid opinion on the matter? My CEO worked for years within the UAE dealing with Oil & Chemical Deals into and out of the Middle East. You'd not believe just how insane some of those countries are ...

But you'd also fail to believe how utterly vital they are to Western Society. We close that trade channel, we spiral into a serious economic downturn, far worse then in 2008 - 2009!

[Felya]

And what experience and foundation do you have to call bullshit to this? Years of international trading through the UAE? No? Oh... Okay. Shush then!

How does going more western, cause problems with Russia and China?

[Stir]

these north Koreans must be very religious

It might not seem that way since North Korea has freedom of religion, but for all intents and purposes, the Supreme Leader worship you find in North Korea is exactly the same as a theocracy. It's merely a case in which a mortal human being takes the place of a deity.

[Hyve]

How does going more western, cause problems with Russia and China?

Because China & Russia are not going to ask the UAE to sacrifice their integration with the Arab World, so China & Russia can get the deals, because we're all sitting around moralising about how the UAE should be.

Try heating your homes and surviving on Morales.

[Itisamuh]

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

I second this notion.

[Elegiac]

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

Flawed as it is, it is still vastly better than Islamic society. And if you hold the welfare of ordinary people as a premium, then you should support acculturation towards western values.

Not drool. Fact. If you've got zero experience in the field, or are not involved directly in the people who are, how can you have a valid opinion on the matter? My CEO worked for years within the UAE dealing with Oil & Chemical Deals into and out of the Middle East. You'd not believe just how insane some of those countries are ...

But you'd also fail to believe how utterly vital they are to Western Society. We close that trade channel, we spiral into a serious economic downturn, far worse then in 2008 - 2009!

droll (drl)
adj. droll·er, droll·est
Amusingly odd or whimsically comical, often used in a sarcastic sense.

I wouldn't call less than 20% of total oil imports (more than half of it from Saudi Arabia) "utterly vital", especially given that the oil bottleneck is not actually in the supply of crude petroleum. Furthermore, as seen with the oil embargo in the 70s they'd be fucking themselves over as well.

[Felya]

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

No, they keep it private so the world doesn't freak out. If it was more open and announced they would be under much heavier scrutiny. You are commending things you find wrong, if they are kept private?

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

We should be able to think for our selfs and judge things on their merits. Just because you find things fucked up with the western world, does not make the way this woman was treated excusable.

[Larwood]

A theocracy is a country in which religious dogma is responsible for (at the very least some) legislation. It is a country RULED by religious dogma.

Oh, you mean like... the US of A?

[Al Gorefiend]

Whilst what happened to her is inexcusable, She broke the golden rule when dealing with any documentation in a foreign country, which is to make sure you can understand it, if you cannot understand it due to it being in a foreign language, or worded in a way your not happy with then you get a lawyer / speak to your consulate.

NEVER under any circumstance sign a blank document, or something in a language you don't understand you leave yourself open to any number of problems as she found out.

Good luck finding a good lawyer in the UAE to defend a case like this. The Quran IS the law, and its the reason she spent 8 months in jail. A UAE lawyer i'd guess would just cite a verse from the Quran, then charge her two camels and a sack of grain as payment.

[Felya]

Because China & Russia are not going to ask the UAE to sacrifice their integration with the Arab World, so China & Russia can get the deals, because we're all sitting around moralising about how the UAE should be.

You think the west would impose sanctions, that Russia and China would violate?

Try heating your homes and surviving on Morales.

The heating I get and my survival, is not dependent on UAE.

[Jackmoves]

But why should we express our concerns? That is their way of life. They don't make big public announcements on how they believe our women dress like whores, and how the men are homosexual scum.

We don't interfere with them, they don't interfere with us. It isn't just diplomacy, it is just common sense. This belief that we should all be international policy, spread our amazing society around the world, is just bullshit. All of Western Society is fucked up beyond repair, and we want to start enforcing our values on them?

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 02:28 PM ----------



Not drool. Fact. If you've got zero experience in the field, or are not involved directly in the people who are, how can you have a valid opinion on the matter? My CEO worked for years within the UAE dealing with Oil & Chemical Deals into and out of the Middle East. You'd not believe just how insane some of those countries are ...

But you'd also fail to believe how utterly vital they are to Western Society. We close that trade channel, we spiral into a serious economic downturn, far worse then in 2008 - 2009!

I'm not saying we should start a trade embargo, I realize the importance of trade flows but I wouldn't mind if we would actually see western politcians and diplomats speak out about things like this.

My country gets something like 50% of our crude oil from russia(most of the other 50% comes from Norway and Denmark), that doesn't stop our politcians from pointing out things about Russia that we don't agree with, trade goes on.

[Hyve]

Flawed as it is, it is still vastly better than Islamic society. And if you hold the welfare of ordinary people as a premium, then you should support acculturation towards western values.

Wrong. Your opinion and belief that we should start going around imposing our views on their nation is the exact reason it is more fucked up over there then ever. Ever since the Crusades (and long before) the Western Society has tried to help these heathens ... Look how well that has gone!

I wouldn't call less than 20% of total oil imports (more than half of it from Saudi Arabia) "utterly vital", especially given that the oil bottleneck is not actually in the supply of crude petroleum. Furthermore, as seen with the oil embargo in the 70s they'd be fucking themselves over as well.

If you believe that 17% of Oil Imports isn't vital, then this conversation is over. Your lack of understanding when it comes to global economics makes your opinion on the matter worthless, and I'd rather spend my time talking to people who've got a clue.

---------- Post added 2013-05-14 at 02:41 PM ----------

I'm not saying we should start a trade embargo, I realize the importance of trade flows but I wouldn't mind if we would actually see western politcians and diplomats speak out about things like this.

My country gets something like 50% of our crude oil from russia(most of the other 50% comes from Norway and Denmark), that doesn't stop our politcians from pointing out things about Russia that we don't agree with, trade goes on.

Sweden & Russia is a bit different then the U.S. & the U.A.E.

Besides, where do you think Russia gets that oil from? Trust me, the web of international trade is very complex, and if you start spouting about another nation, you best be ready to cover the cost when your nation becomes much poorer, because some rich arab prince turns off the oil line.

[Elegiac]

Wrong. Your opinion and belief that we should start going around imposing our views on their nation is the exact reason it is more fucked up over there then ever. Ever since the Crusades (and long before) the Western Society has tried to help these heathens ... Look how well that has gone!

You seem to be confused as to the definition of acculturation.

If you believe that 17% of Oil Imports isn't vital, then this conversation is over. Your lack of understanding when it comes to global economics makes your opinion on the matter worthless, and I'd rather spend my time talking to people who've got a clue.

I would say "important", not "utterly vital". And as Jackmoves said, nobody is talking about an embargo of any sort.

[Al Gorefiend]

Oh, you mean like... the US of A?

Just because we have strictly biased religious right-wingers who TRY to bring their beliefs into law, doesn't mean they can and do without resistance. If America was as Christian as the UAE is Islamic, our children would have mandatory prayer, and even uttering a hint of being gay or atheist would be a crime.

[Hyve]

You think the west would impose sanctions, that Russia and China would violate?

You mean like those sanctions put on North Korea, Syria, Iran, Iraq & Afghanistan, all of which are running around with Russian or Chinese Weapons, Technology & Training.

The heating I get and my survival, is not dependent on UAE.

No, but the deals done inside the UAE because of their society, that acts a medium for both Western & Middle-Eastern cultures, is what heats your home.