Patch 5.3 mage buffs!

[Akraen]

LB is restricted to 3 targets. The explosion isn't. NT has the advantage of dealing 50% of its damage to a secondary target, increasing its worth for multidot. LB just has 10% of total DoT as cleave, and only at the end. At least with NT there's partial credit for mobs being in and out of range, or dying.

Being forced into LB as either arcane or Frost both very nearly makes me want to quit my mage.

LB is why I always hated fire and now I am pigeonholed. I am dreading 5.3.

[Deleted]

The following trinkets have on-use effects reduced by 33%, but have a 100% increase to duration when used in a Battleground or Arena.

Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
Renataki's Soul Charm
Steadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault
Wushoolay's Final Choice

Maybe I'm ignorant, but what on-use effect?
Would this "nerf" influence my trinket choice as frost coming 5.3?
Currently I have BotH (528) and Wushoo's (502) and aiming for Wushoo at 522.

Should I swap to another trinket instead of Wushoo?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

The proc is halved in power but doubled in duration while in BG/arena. Given you're using two raid trinkets, I assume you raid. Nothing changes.

.... I wonder how the ICD will work with that...

[mrgreenthump]

The proc is halved in power but doubled in duration while in BG/arena. Given you're using two raid trinkets, I assume you raid. Nothing changes.

.... I wonder how the ICD will work with that...

in grand blizzard fashion.. I bet it is still 22 secs xD

[Danaos]

Quote: Being forced into LB as either arcane or Frost both very nearly makes me want to quit my mage.

But being "forced" using NT as fire and frost was okay?

[Akraen]

Quote: Being forced into LB as either arcane or Frost both very nearly makes me want to quit my mage.

But being "forced" using NT as fire and frost was okay?

Nope, not remotely okay. I wanted to use frost bomb but due to mobility issues I can't even get to like that. I hate the entire issue with our L75 and L90 talents. No defense by devs or players can make the problem go away because it is clearly evident that it provides a lot of distress and unrest in the mage community. It's clear enough people are unhappy with those two tiers that drastic change needs to happen and the sooner the better.

[Deleted]

3. No. IW is now 100% worthless in PvE (I actually made a thread about that where people agreed it's useless)

What? Why is IW 100% useless in PVE? It was good before even without using it but just with the passive buff, whats changed now?

[britishbubba]

What? Why is IW 100% useless in PVE? It was good before even without using it but just with the passive buff, whats changed now?

when the shield is consumed, you only get 15% increased damage, as opposed to the earlier 30%. IW was good for being able to "game" this extra damage and play with it like a small burst window when there was reliable damage to proc it. Now that it only gives 15%, it's essentially the same as invocation, only you have to expend double the GCDs to use it.

I *assume* (haven't bothered to do the math) that 2x GCDs < 1x Evo channel... That and you add in the part that if IW isn't procced ON COOLDOWN, you will on average have a lower spell power buff when compared to invo.

That's my understanding of the situation.

[Mini]

in grand blizzard fashion.. I bet it is still 22 secs xD

Unfortunately, it doesn't continue stacking if it procs again before the first one expires. I've done this with Alter Time before and you start over again at 1 stack of Electrified or w/e it's called and build up to 10 stacks over 20 sec from the 2nd proc.

---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 04:42 PM ----------

The entire point of RPPM is so that event frequency shouldn't change uptimes. NT has more potential triggers, but each is lower chance due to the time between the last possible event.

On average, this is true. However, at the beginning of the fight when you're trying to get absolutely every RPPM thing proc'd ASAP so you can Alter Time and go nuts, the extra NT ticks (the ones you'd get between ticks of LB) may get your procs up sooner and lined up more closely. Since mage burst on the pull is so insane, this actually could be pretty significant, especially on "Super-Pull" fights like H Council or H Durumu where you blow absolutely every CD on the pull.

[jtmzac]

Nope, not remotely okay. I wanted to use frost bomb but due to mobility issues I can't even get to like that. I hate the entire issue with our L75 and L90 talents. No defense by devs or players can make the problem go away because it is clearly evident that it provides a lot of distress and unrest in the mage community. It's clear enough people are unhappy with those two tiers that drastic change needs to happen and the sooner the better.

Level 90 talents need to go but we need the 75 tier. It adds an extra spell that we need to make the class interesting.

Despite it being a fire spell I actually sort of like living bomb. The way it works gives a lot more leeway when refreshing it and you don't have to constantly make the decision to lose a tick or let it fall off like you do with NT. I am rather concerned its a nerf because we won't be able to clip it like we do with NT.

[Tiga]

I *assume* (haven't bothered to do the math) that 2x GCDs < 1x Evo channel... That and you add in the part that if IW isn't procced ON COOLDOWN, you will on average have a lower spell power buff when compared to invo.

With zero haste, 2 x GCD = 3 seconds. With zero haste, Invocation-Evocation = 3 seconds. At 50% haste, things are still equal with the GCD at 1 second each and Invo-Evo at 2 seconds. Any more hate than that and the cast time for Invo-Evo keeps going down, but the global cooldown is stuck at 1 second. In other words, Invocation is practically immune to haste caps.

I have normally played with Incanter's Ward, but took Invocation for some fights tonight (Horridon heroic and Council). I manage 97% uptime on the buff on both, but still decided I needed a quick reminder buff that pops up if Invoker's Energy is not up. Definitely felt more boring and more like a routine than something you would use when the situation called for it.

If the nerf goes through as it is, I'll be using IW for solo play and PvP and then switch to Invocation for all raids.

Holinka on Twitter: "IW wasn't that popular in PvE. It was a nice option for burst situations, but generally it wasn't taken." https://twitter.com/holinka/status/335162640223571968

So his view was that since IW was already practically a dead talent for PvE, bit was fine to kill it off completely and make it more balanced for PvP since the other two talents were practicaly dead for PvP.

Personally, if a talent was almost never taken for PvE, I would have my best to figure out why it was considered underpowered in PvE and tried to get it to work there without making it too powerful in PvP either.

We now have one completely dead talent, one that's taken for PvP and one that's taken for PvE. Doesn't sound like much of a choice.

I wrote a post about the IW nerf on the EU PTR forum. I suspect it's not going to be of any use, but if you're curious and not yet bored to death about my ranting about IW, here it is: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7426875101

[beastree]

LOL! noob.

LB will be fking ownage on H Horridon fight.. just dot up LB on all about to die adds and make em explod and hit ALL those adds. there goes alot of dps boost. all mages better get that horridon heroic kill to be known as good mage dps~ once lb changes in 5.3, mages will be op for that fight and horridon heroic kills wont be much in a mages perspective.

Infracted. Please don't flame.

Now that 5.3 is coming out next week, I had a few questions about mage changes. These questions are regarding pve raiding only (and to a degree, min-maxing).

1. Aside from the flat damage increase to AE, blizzard, and FS, are there any spec specific changes being made? I remember reading maybe a month or two ago that there was a good possibility that depending on your spec, blizzard and flamestrike were going to be instant (similar to reign of fire now and the old flamestrike respectively). Did I just read someone's hopeful speculations or was it real?

2. With the living bomb buff, will it be as good as NT for single target? For cleave 2-3 targets? Or will it strictly be for mass AoE? What's the logic/goal behind removing the explosion damage cap of 3 targets to all?

3. With the duration increase to IW equaling the cooldown, will it be a possible replacement for evocation/invoker's energy on fights where you take constant damage?

4. Why is flameglow getting nerfed again? Isn't it already weak and borderline never used?

5. I don't understand the mirror image change, can someone explain the reasoning? (lol)


Thanks

[Hasted]

The following summoned pets/totems will now chain cast their spells with no delay between casts, allowing them to cast their spells more frequently in the same amount of time.
Death Knight: Gargoyle
Druid: Force of Nature (Balance, Restoration), Mirror Image (Symbiosis)
Mage: Mirror Image, Water Elemental
Shaman: Searing Totem
Warlock: Doomguard, Terrorguard, Wild Imp

Fairly notable buff to Frost and Mirror Images (though I don't know to what degree).

[timwoods]

Was the frostbolt nerf removed? I don't see it in the patch notes.

[isadorr]

Fairly notable buff to Frost and Mirror Images (though I don't know to what degree).

The 13% frostbolt nerf is on the front page. If anything fire with more crit will benefit more from the living bomb buff and flamestrike.

---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 05:30 AM ----------

1. No, blizzard and FS only got dmg increases and won't be instant as rain of fire.
2. LB will be better than NT for single target fights. For cleave fights, NT will be better. And they removed the explosion cap as the explosion damage is really low now. But I don't know the exact numbers of targets where LB could be better than NT or FB. Maybe never, but LB is better than NT for single targets.
3. You could, but there won't be a big difference as you have to use IW ~ twice as often as Invo, means 2x GCD for 50sec buff vs. 3s casting Evo (without haste) for 60sec +15% dmg. And ofc absorb vs. heal + IW is instant, so you can move.
4.
5. No idea.

My living bomb explodes for well over 120k, so 20% off that is still a buff with them taking the target cap off for lb.

---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 05:31 AM ----------

Maybe I'm ignorant, but what on-use effect?
Would this "nerf" influence my trinket choice as frost coming 5.3?
Currently I have BotH (528) and Wushoo's (502) and aiming for Wushoo at 522.

Should I swap to another trinket instead of Wushoo?

Pvp changes.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Fairly notable buff to Frost and Mirror Images (though I don't know to what degree).

1-2% or so. Nothing huge, but it's nice.

Was the frostbolt nerf removed? I don't see it in the patch notes.

The nerf pulled up was a reversion of the buff that was previously put in during PTR. 5.2 frostbolt == 5.3 frostbolt. No change.

My living bomb explodes for well over 120k, so 20% off that is still a buff with them taking the target cap off for lb.

LB itself has a target cap. The explosion's cap was removed. The explosion is not ~80% of old damage. It's more along the lines of 10-20%, haste dependant. It's 10% of tick damage*ticks for cast.

[Argussonn]

Are unofficial Patch 5.3 notes from MMO-champion reliable?

Look, what I found there:

Frost Bomb Places a Frost Bomb on the target. After 4 sec, the bomb explodes, dealing [ 4,600 + 344.68% of Spell Power] Frost damage to the primary target, and [ 2,301 + 172.5% of Spell Power ] Frost damage to all other targets within 10 yds. All affected targets are slowed by 70% for 2 sec. Frost Bomb's countdown and cooldown are reduced by haste. Unlimited range. Instant.

[Keiyra]

Are unofficial Patch 5.3 notes from MMO-champion reliable?
Look, what I found there:

Frost Bomb Places a Frost Bomb on the target. After 4 sec, the bomb explodes, dealing [ 4,600 + 344.68% of Spell Power] Frost damage to the primary target, and [ 2,301 + 172.5% of Spell Power ] Frost damage to all other targets within 10 yds. All affected targets are slowed by 70% for 2 sec. Frost Bomb's countdown and cooldown are reduced by haste. Unlimited range. Instant.

That's prolly just a tool tip update from 5.2 when all the bomb talents were hotfix buffed by 40%

[Deleted]

Are unofficial Patch 5.3 notes from MMO-champion reliable?

Look, what I found there:

Frost Bomb Places a Frost Bomb on the target. After 4 sec, the bomb explodes, dealing [ 4,600 + 344.68% of Spell Power] Frost damage to the primary target, and [ 2,301 + 172.5% of Spell Power ] Frost damage to all other targets within 10 yds. All affected targets are slowed by 70% for 2 sec. Frost Bomb's countdown and cooldown are reduced by haste. Unlimited range. Instant.

I think that's just the previous hotfix changes to the bombs that you've seen there, dunno why there in patch notes but don't think there's any change to the damage. The bit about it being instant is a bit weird, considering its still describes it as having a 1.5 sec cast under the talents part of the mage bit.

[Yeren]

the explosive damage is instant