Everyone must go fire...

[Hasufer]

Juuuust a little bit lol.
Oh well, I for once can't say that I'm overly exited about fire either - I enjoy frost for it's fast gameplay, loads of tweaking, and generally having a lot more fun while playing, yet topping w/e I join in on
Been fire for years, and it's decent fun to play, but it's just so trivial. Max crit, master combust and opener and u win, get lucky on rng, and u win even more. (tho the rng factor aint very high)

[spaace]

None of this is new.. from fire is rng to ... complaining about fire and nerfs/buffs.


business as usual

[Mastamage]

There's no upper limit to your haste or mastery, wtf are you talking about?

Whenever people think there's a cap to haste I just assume they're afraid of going under the "forbidden" GCD. They'll usually respond with "anything over 100% is wasted!". Truly good indication of what type of a player they are.

[Tehterokkar]

Whenever people think there's a cap to haste I just assume they're afraid of going under the "forbidden" GCD. They'll usually respond with "anything over 100% is wasted!". Truly good indication of what type of a player they are.

Because if I could reforge my haste so that I get 1.0 sec casts instead of 0.8 with Lust+Meta for example, it would be a DPS increase. Because in the end, you can't cast faster than 1 Spell per 1 second due to GCD.

[Mastamage]

Because if I could reforge my haste so that I get 1.0 sec casts instead of 0.8 with Lust+Meta for example, it would be a DPS increase. Because in the end, you can't cast faster than 1 Spell per 1 second due to GCD.

and I'll direct you to http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ou-Quick-Guide

[Akraen]

Because if I could reforge my haste so that I get 1.0 sec casts instead of 0.8 with Lust+Meta for example, it would be a DPS increase. Because in the end, you can't cast faster than 1 Spell per 1 second due to GCD.

That's the old way of thinking.

NT is a big enough portion of our DPS and during the periods where we don't have burst haste is significant enough to continue stacking haste. Haste is more procs. And RPPM, of course.

[Deleted]

I agree with you Akraen, more haste = more procs = more BF = more NT dmg. Multi Target (a fight like council) need high amout of haste. I´m with you here, but I think you lose too much from the inital burst with lust and meta gem and RPPM seems to be not rewarding enough with high amout of haste. As long as you can have same RPPM uptime with 10% less haste and sacrifice therefore more INT because of gems, there will never be a "right way" to go for frost (RNG).

If we could benefit from haste like arcane does before and past GCD (mana and proc is not an instant it´s a channel), everthing would be fine and I would even accept the clunky feeling. Frost has too much damage from instants and our resource (procs like FoF and BF) are too RNG dependent.

Really can´t explain it even better. I can give you my first arcane attempt (video) from last night on durumu if you want.

[Akraen]

It is very common for me to be nowhere in the top 10 damagers for the first minute of a fight.

Then I gradually creep up. They don't see me coming.

Boss is at 50% and the fire mage suddenly loses his amazing RNG and I pass him...

Boss is at 20% and suddenly the locks and hunters begin to panic.

Then by the time the boss dies, I am usually #1 or #2, our enhancement shaman is ridiculous.

I just don't care how big my numbers are on pull if my DPM is so much higher.

[Deleted]

It is very common for me to be nowhere in the top 10 damagers for the first minute of a fight.

Then I gradually creep up. They don't see me coming.

Boss is at 50% and the fire mage suddenly loses his amazing RNG and I pass him...

Boss is at 20% and suddenly the locks and hunters begin to panic.

Then by the time the boss dies, I am usually #1 or #2, our enhancement shaman is ridiculous.

I just don't care how big my numbers are on pull if my DPM is so much higher.

and i was #1dps in bt as a feral druid. still ferals were very bad at that time, the other players just played bad. anyways what do you want to tell us?

[spaace]

congrats at being good at feral druid.

all sorts of guilds have all sorts of players at the top..
Usually mages/druids/warlocks/rogues/hunter... OH LOOK HALF THE DPS~!


wtb more ilvls so I can keep up with the curve.

[Akraen]

and i was #1dps in bt as a feral druid. still ferals were very bad at that time, the other players just played bad. anyways what do you want to tell us?

It continues to astound me the density possessed by the ignoramuses replying to my threads when clearly I mean one thing and they do an implication for me as though I mean something else.

Bye MMO-C. Find another theorycrafter.

[gallamann]

It continues to astound me the density possessed by the ignoramuses replying to my threads when clearly I mean one thing and they do an implication for me as though I mean something else.

Bye MMO-C. Find another theorycrafter.

Akraen, just ignore the trolls. I for one look forward to reading your thoughts on Frost, hell your NT ticks thread got me to create a Weakaura so I can monitor what my Haste is at. Last nite on LFR Primordious, at one point my haste hit 256%, and I re-applied Living Bomb for some ridiculous number of ticks.

I am using LB at the moment, as it is a great intermediate step from cast FB on cooldown to multi-dot with NT. In a few weeks I hope to rotate between LB and NT as I get better at multi-dot, depending on fight. Also I am not at that 12k magic number yet on haste.

[Deleted]

i dont know guys. but all i can see is something like: "hey look at my wol. frost is good", "hahahaha", "im nr. 1 in my guild. play frost".
this thread is called "everyone must go fire". and indeed fire is better than frost @520++. i enjoy frost too. played it alot in 5.1. but doing more dps is more enjoyable so im playing fire. its still for you to decide if you must go fire.

[Tapzer]

That's the problem with wow, they want to buff frost mages in pve, but then they completely ruin pvp for anyone who is not a mage

[Mastamage]

i dont know guys. but all i can see is something like: "hey look at my wol. frost is good", "hahahaha", "im nr. 1 in my guild. play frost".
this thread is called "everyone must go fire". and indeed fire is better than frost @520++. i enjoy frost too. played it alot in 5.1. but doing more dps is more enjoyable so im playing fire. its still for you to decide if you must go fire.

The "required" ilvl for fire does not exist. That transition requires crit %. You can play it at 520 but I guarantee the RNG will be hell on earth.

Funny how us frost mages still compete (and beat) fire mages with a higher ilvl than us. Frost is the most consistent dps for mages and even those playing it at 535 ilvl are destroying a large portion of fire mages. Stop being as asshat and get your facts straight.

Now, as far as you taking shots at Akraen, I suggest you stop the trolling.

GG playing fire, you can play bad and still win. Try that as frost and report back.

[isadorr]

Fire is the #1 scaling spec in the entire game. Mastamage lol, top frost parses are barely in the top 100 on most fights.

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 06:54 AM ----------

The "required" ilvl for fire does not exist. That transition requires crit %. You can play it at 520 but I guarantee the RNG will be hell on earth.

Funny how us frost mages still compete (and beat) fire mages with a higher ilvl than us. Frost is the most consistent dps for mages and even those playing it at 535 ilvl are destroying a large portion of fire mages. Stop being as asshat and get your facts straight.

Now, as far as you taking shots at Akraen, I suggest you stop the trolling.

GG playing fire, you can play bad and still win. Try that as frost and report back.

The reason his progression is bad is because of him and his lol frost mage pals. All that gear and still utterly failing. Obviously progrssion isnt the most important when you arent playing the optimal spec, and the #1 scaling spec in the game. Ya gg on progression as you brag about frost parses.

[nimryas]

Fire logs are skewed a lot in my opinion. You can for a few weeks with adequate DPS, then 1 week get good RNG and rank like 50th... "Omg Fire best spec!!!"

TL;DR: Good RNG = Rank on WoL

^This pretty much. For me the best way to find out which spec is the best is to check individuel differences between specs and check their weakness and strong points, from that point on you can rationalise what the best spec potentially could be. (Ex. frost bad scaling --> decent/good at low ilvls; fire good scaling --> sucks at low lvl but very good at higher ilvl).

[mrgreenthump]

The reason his progression is bad is because of him and his lol frost mage pals. All that gear and still utterly failing. Obviously progrssion isnt the most important when you arent playing the optimal spec, and the #1 scaling spec in the game. Ya gg on progression as you brag about frost parses.

While it'd kinda silly for him to always refer to his logs and personal performance, as it really gives 0 ammount of perspective for anyone. Your post is still kinda uncalled for. Why are you attacking him or his guild? Really.. Frost atm pulls enough dps to do enough damage to clear enrage timer on each boss with the current gear. There is no doubt abt that.

[Deleted]

The "required" ilvl for fire does not exist. That transition requires crit %. You can play it at 520 but I guarantee the RNG will be hell on earth.

Funny how us frost mages still compete (and beat) fire mages with a higher ilvl than us. Frost is the most consistent dps for mages and even those playing it at 535 ilvl are destroying a large portion of fire mages. Stop being as asshat and get your facts straight.

Now, as far as you taking shots at Akraen, I suggest you stop the trolling.

GG playing fire, you can play bad and still win. Try that as frost and report back.

You sound like a really bad, clueless and stupid mage.

[Deleted]

Fire is the #1 scaling spec in the entire game. Mastamage lol, top frost parses are barely in the top 100 on most fights.

The reason his progression is bad is because of him and his lol frost mage pals. All that gear and still utterly failing. Obviously progrssion isnt the most important when you arent playing the optimal spec, and the #1 scaling spec in the game. Ya gg on progression as you brag about frost parses.

Its funny how you are inherently wrong, whilst still making some valid points. Believe me when I say this: Outside of World Top 10 races, minimal differences in specc-performance have little to no meaning for progression. Any experienced raid leader could tell you this. Barring some very unfortunate circumstances, I fail to imagine a situation where a competent Frost Mage will be a burden to his guild in comparison to a similarly geared, equally competent Fire Mage.
Now, don't get me wrong. Fire is the dominant mage specc for a reason, and its the optimal specc for most if not all encounters in ToT. I, too, dislike anecdotecal bragging about individual parses and find them inconsequential. Yet it serves to show an important point here: Frost can put out good numbers, and you don't HAVE to go fire to perform well.

It's a fascinating issue with this game how everyone and their grandmother is so focused on min-maxing for some theoretical 5% of DPS whilst they often fail to understand basic points of gameplay and teamwork. 90% of even heroic raiders do not perform to that level, nor is it necessary. Or, in other words: If your guild is relying on having a fire mage critting well to down a boss, you aren't ready to kill that boss yet. Killing a boss is about consistency first and foremost. Fire doesn't provide consistently insane numbers, just slightly better ones on average. The attempts where it goes crazy might be fun, but they can't be relied on.

Frost, by all appearances, is fine. Arguing that its strictly better then fire is silly, and noone is doing that. Arguing that 90% of all raiders don't have to go fire is just common sense though. I am willing to say right now that outside of Top 100 raiding, there is not a single guild in the world where a competently played frost mage would be the limiting factor in getting more kills.