Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[JV Chequer]

> Put your Demon Hunting Glyph
> Taunt Lei Shen for Decapite
> DB
> LOL'D AT that bitchy face
> GO Meta and roll some donuts

[Apero]

yeah, an 8% chance to refund shard with the new 4pc t16 will give you extremely high uptime on haunt /sarcasm off.

yes it will give you a higher uptime, but the higher uptime on haunt will be more bcoz of the nightfall change than the t16 4pc setbonus.

Instead of writing bs you should probably move to the ptr and do some bosses. I had 85-90% Haunt uptime without any problems. Will be even higher if my gear isn scaled to 520. Of course i mean the whole system with the higher nightfall chance AND the 4pc.

- - - Updated - - -

> Put your Demon Hunting Glyph
> Taunt Lei Shen for Decapite
> DB
> LOL'D AT that bitchy face
> GO Meta and roll some donuts

Taunt doesent work on raid bosses. And i guess absorbed dmg wont count. So, no...

[JV Chequer]

Taunt doesent work on raid bosses. And i guess absorbed dmg wont count. So, no...

Why breaking this momment so fast?

[Deleted]

Don't shields count as mitigation? So if boss hits 100% of our HP *cough tortos, we get like 6k SP

yeah...thats what I said. If you got Sac Pact or Soulleech up, it will absorb the damage and AV won´t do anything, so if you skill one of those spells you´ll make AV weaker then it would be without them

[Deleted]

Some napkin math:

Based on my last kill of Durumu, I think this is the most average fight. I don't do much at all on ice walls or other adds, because other DPS take care of them.

Total damage from dots themselves: 59,5%
Total damage from MG/DS plus their dot ticks: 32,8%
Total damage from haunt (direct only): 6,9%

All that is left missing is soul link getting counted, a tiny amount from fel flame etc.


After changes, but without the haunt duration and uptime buff (through more nightfall):
62,8% damage from dots, relative to the total from the kill log
20,5% damage from MG/DS including their dot ticjks, relative to kill
10,4% damage from haunt direct damage

Total 93,6% so a little lower than before the changes. However, this does not include the haunt damage gain (45% up from 30%) nor the extra shards from higher nightfall proc (7% up from 5%).

In my kill I had ~70% uptime on haunt, which for me is very typical. Adding the extra damage from haunt getting buffed to 45%:
Total 101,7% so a very small amount higher than before any changes!

And that still doesn't include the extra shards. I think it's fair to say we can get 90%+ uptime on haunt, but we would also gain even more damage from casting haunt more often. It will deal a lot more damage per execute time than even our current pre-nerf MG/DS.
Based on 90% haunt:
108,7% of initial damage, still not counting damage gained from direct haunts.


Additionally, it will be a much smaller loss now if there are periods where we can't channel MG/DS. For example, dots you put on Suen during the first phase in Twins would do more; same for dotting more than one target for example on Council; even leaving them ticking on targets on Iron Qon.

Overall, just from some quick math (didn't sim or anything), it seems like the current changes would be a significant buff, around 6-10%. This seems quite insane to me considering affliction is already competitive, and Mannoroth's Fury seems to make it great for AoE as well, it's current worst weakness.

On a side not, this reduces the value of channeling by so much, AV/MF could very well be good choices! Also, with the Nightfall change, we will drown in shards already, making the 4pc bonus almost completely worthless.

[Deleted]

Instead of writing bs you should probably move to the ptr and do some bosses. I had 85-90% Haunt uptime without any problems. Will be even higher if my gear isn scaled to 520. Of course i mean the whole system with the higher nightfall chance AND the 4pc.

my point still stands tho. also you dont even need to go on the ptr to figure this 1 out either, simple math would do that for you. you'd basically need to chain cast 12,5 haunts(and wait for the debuff to end) just to make the t16 4pc equal to the extra 2% chance on nightfall and thats without calculating haste into it but you're absolutely right, the t16 4pc set in conjunction with this change to the procrate of nightfall will greatly increase the uptime of haunt, not the t16 4pc alone.

[forsworn]

no man.. it means how much you take AFTER mitigation.

at least that's how i read it.. have to test. hope you're right ^^.

edit - if it is before mitigation.. that is ridic. and we'll catch a nerf, promise.

Tank Vengance
Rank 1 comment absorbs do not prevent.

I really want this to work for standing in fire. You basically dont take damage as a lock.

[Deleted]

Some napkin math:

Based on my last kill of Durumu, I think this is the most average fight. I don't do much at all on ice walls or other adds, because other DPS take care of them.

Total damage from dots themselves: 59,5%
Total damage from MG/DS plus their dot ticks: 32,8%
Total damage from haunt (direct only): 6,9%

All that is left missing is soul link getting counted, a tiny amount from fel flame etc.


After changes, but without the haunt duration and uptime buff (through more nightfall):
62,8% damage from dots, relative to the total from the kill log
20,5% damage from MG/DS including their dot ticjks, relative to kill
10,4% damage from haunt direct damage

Total 93,6% so a little lower than before the changes. However, this does not include the haunt damage gain (45% up from 30%) nor the extra shards from higher nightfall proc (7% up from 5%).

In my kill I had ~70% uptime on haunt, which for me is very typical. Adding the extra damage from haunt getting buffed to 45%:
Total 101,7% so a very small amount higher than before any changes!

And that still doesn't include the extra shards. I think it's fair to say we can get 90%+ uptime on haunt, but we would also gain even more damage from casting haunt more often. It will deal a lot more damage per execute time than even our current pre-nerf MG/DS.
Based on 90% haunt:
108,7% of initial damage, still not counting damage gained from direct haunts.


Additionally, it will be a much smaller loss now if there are periods where we can't channel MG/DS. For example, dots you put on Suen during the first phase in Twins would do more; same for dotting more than one target for example on Council; even leaving them ticking on targets on Iron Qon.

Overall, just from some quick math (didn't sim or anything), it seems like the current changes would be a significant buff, around 6-10%. This seems quite insane to me considering affliction is already competitive, and Mannoroth's Fury seems to make it great for AoE as well, it's current worst weakness.

On a side not, this reduces the value of channeling by so much, AV/MF could very well be good choices! Also, with the Nightfall change, we will drown in shards already, making the 4pc bonus almost completely worthless.

well if you think about it, then it isnt too farfetched that they would be buffing affliction a bit coz they nerfed our overall dmg bcoz we picked KJC by default, and then state that they want the penalty of picking KJC to be that you wont be able to pick any of the other lvl 90 talents, effectively reverting the nerf we would have gotten from the "picking KJC by default" part, so it would stand to reason that a buff would be in order but it is still way too early, i hope these changes go through if it is a dmg buff unless ofc they decide to give us a bigger one.

[Milmo]

Not sure I like AV at all, we should not take damage to deal damage, it promotes bad play, "Wanna dps? Please, stand in bad!".

[Twilight Cultist]

Not sure I like AV at all, we should not take damage to deal damage, it promotes bad play, "Wanna dps? Please, stand in bad!".

I like it. It feels warlocky. Taking big risks to get more power.

[Deleted]

I like it. It feels warlocky. Taking big risks to get more power.

I'll like it until it starts to be abused to hell.

Also, I've just woke up, so forgive me - but is what strmstrike says indicating that the changes to affliction on the PTR are a buff? The nerfs to MG and DS looked pretty daunting, but I've not had a cup of tea yet, so I don't consider myself in the right frame of mind to be able to comprehend any math just yet.

[Milmo]

I like it. It feels warlocky. Taking big risks to get more power.

And I'm sure healers will love us

[Deleted]

idd twilight cultist, i like the idea, but imagine the hell you'd put your healers through by running around like a made man to get all the sp buffs they could. Who knew that they would make our dmg mitigation nerf into a dps buff.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=93098/vengeance

If its similiar its gna be really really interesting

[Thelm]

Not sure I like AV at all, we should not take damage to deal damage, it promotes bad play, "Wanna dps? Please, stand in bad!".

I haven't played a mage this xpac, but isn't Incanter's Ward a spell where you have to take damage to do damage?

Edit: I guess my point is that it wouldn't be the first time Blizz has implemented something like this.

[Count Zero]

I think until it's proven otherwise, we should assume it won't work by standing in fire; they've equated new AV with Vengeance, and they've said in 5.4 Vengeance won't work from standing in fire.

[Werst]

With the changes affliction looks to be in a good spot. I'm not sure if they plan on adjusting the soul leech figures for affliction or if it will just be a very soft option for the spec. Siphon life does trickle healing (but no absorb) and dark regen+glyph'd HS is gives locks another on demand defensive (in pve, already standard in pvp). Harvest life really has no "job" especially if it doesn't mojo with MF and now that MF makes seeds a very strong aoe option which was what affliction lacked.

Demo still seems married to UVLS+amp trinkets. Though we will have to wait and see how the EA glyph change plays out and if they leave snapshotting crit rating in place for doom. Demo is also the spec who least needs KJC so pretty sure AV/MF will be the go to for it. Conceptually being balanced around the notion of 100% crit dooms is questionable. Even if we weren't balanced for it in 5.2-5.3 we certainly are going to be for 5.4 unless they make doom dynamically update. In which case then demo would need some buffs. Maybe just make doom ticks always spawn an imp? Reacting to a trinket proc is fine, balancing the entire parse/progression attempt on RRPM rng is overkill. Not trying to open the RPPM debate can of worms, just saying demo is too heavily reliant on it atm.

Destro is in a pretty bad state but I'm pretty sure they haven't done a pass for it yet. Without MF and RoF embers en masse its pretty clear the spec needs quite a bit of help. Problem is with an even simpler rotation there are not lots of places to put the damage back in. It will need 30% emberbit generation buff period just to offset the RoF change single target. Not to mention the lack of scaling means it will need to see coef bumps closer to arcane than where its at now. If they don't buff ember generation back then the spell buffs will have to be even bigger. They are also going to have to include F&B spells into MF or I don't see it ever being a viable option for destro.

[Deleted]

I'll like it until it starts to be abused to hell.

Also, I've just woke up, so forgive me - but is what strmstrike says indicating that the changes to affliction on the PTR are a buff? The nerfs to MG and DS looked pretty daunting, but I've not had a cup of tea yet, so I don't consider myself in the right frame of mind to be able to comprehend any math just yet.

Yes it seems like a buff, the loss from channels is more than compensated by the buffs on Agony, UA and most of all Haunt.

[Deleted]

Hi, just a few questions regarding demonology 5.4

1. Has there been any confirmations regarding the t16 set2, how long does it last and can it stack(you can always dream,eh? ?
2. Has anyone done any math on level 75 talents? With the set 2, will it be more beneficial to play supremacy or service?
3. With the current information on trinkets, personally i would see the 15k haste cap as something to aim for, is there any math on dps values for the 9k and 15k cap in tier 16, is it even possible to stick at the 8 ticks?
4. Thanks to the MF change there has been a lot of talk regarding demonology AoE, can it be considered viable anymore or should we just aim straight for affliction when the fight calls for AoE?
5. T16 set 4, will this stack with current applications of HoG?

thanks in advance

[Kanariya]

I haven't played a mage this xpac, but isn't Incanter's Ward a spell where you have to take damage to do damage?

Edit: I guess my point is that it wouldn't be the first time Blizz has implemented something like this.

Passively Incanter's Ward gives you 6% spell damage. Actively, it's a very very weak (22k) absorb that you need to break in order to get the full benefit. Because basically every boss will cause you that amount of damage without you actually having to stand in the bad, it's not much like AV imo. Though Mages see it as a PvP talent and rarely take it in PvE.