Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Bluesftw]

instead of leaping back and forth with AV just give us cataclysm back as lvl 90 talent, there, done deal.

[Count Zero]

Anyone worth a damn in class development is working on Titan or the new expansion. Anyone not selected (due to lack of skill) for these up and coming games are left with MoP and it's showing. Good thing they hired Lore to distract community as they feel like they are involved in the process.

They actually pulled all their developers from Titan and shifted them to their other games.

In any event I don't think their intentions were as bad as the outcomes. Despite an easily-identifiable theme for the level 90 tier, I think they wanted to go with interesting choices that would be difficult to calculate the benefit of. I think they problelm is they couldn't really calculate the benefits themselves, and have had to adjust as they go when one or the other proved to be the default choice for most (AV when KJC had the cast-time penalty, KJC ever since -- not for every situation, and not for everyone ... but enough).

It looks like they're giving KJC the GoSac treatment, tho ... make the other two undeniably mathematically superior (on paper / in simulations).

Still wonder how they could make AV buff DS (and I like how the Blue referred to it as Demon Soul) while retaining the fundamental essence of our damage done being buffed by our damage taken ... taking damage reduces cd on DS ? Lifetapping reduces cd on DS (dunno what for Destro) ? I think in general they're gonna have to completely scrap damage taken = damage done ... but it's just gotta be something more interesting than simply reducing the cd / increasing the power of DS

[Teye]

I'm almost positive this change will result in AV being the AoE talent for Demonology, rather than MF.

[Jessicka]

I'm almost positive this change will result in AV being the AoE talent for Demonology, rather than MF.

Same for destro since MF doesn't effect FnB.

[Deleted]

Same for destro since MF doesn't effect FnB.

I'm curious as to how it would affect affliction, with the way SS works now, it might be superior to just copy a heap of DS buffed dots over MF SOC spam.

Depends a lot on what exactly the AV change is and if you're going to be sacrificing a lot of single target by holding onto DS for the AOE phase as opposed to having DS used on CD and MF for the AOE. Impossible to tell before we know exactly what they're doing.

[Rayaleith]

I'm almost positive this change will result in AV being the AoE talent for Demonology, rather than MF.

This would be bad design. They NEED to try harder. The thing is that they really know how vengeance works. They have so much data. They know the number and the tricks people will do. Cannot understand why they cannot do it.

[sasofrass]

i have a feeling they're going to keep the vengeance portion working, but instead of just passively gaining the SP it will now have an onuse effect which grants the pooled amount of spell power gained from vengeance on a 2 minute cooldown, 20 second use, to line up with dark soul.

[xskarma]

Not entirely sure but more potent DS could possibly mean some added utility in some form instead of a straight numbers increase. Like someone mentioned as a talent idea to give us unlimited resources for a certain time frame, they could tie that to DS, or make us use less resources during DS, like we have in one of our tier bonuses.

If it is just a straight numbers upgrade of DS then we might have a problem. Although, it *has* to be rather potent to stand up to KJC, so.

[Deleted]

It could also reduce the CD of DS to 105 seconds :>

[Xploit]

2 piece T15 set bonus tied into new DS version of AV would be awesome.

[xskarma]

It could also reduce the CD of DS to 105 seconds :>

Good for PvP at least, unsure if people would be happy about it for PvE. Probably makes lining up cooldowns a lot harder.

[Teye]

As far as the Vengeance version of AV goes, if that happens to be the design they go with, Warlocks are going to be face pulling bosses with UR active so they can take a melee hit, get a ton of bonus SP and then do their openers.

- - - Updated - - -

Good for PvP at least, unsure if people would be happy about it for PvE. Probably makes lining up cooldowns a lot harder.

This. Pulling it away from lining up with Springs and Service would be terrible. We hated it in Tier 14, why bring it back?

[Deleted]

As far as the Vengeance version of AV goes, if that happens to be the design they go with, Warlocks are going to be face pulling bosses with UR active so they can take a melee hit, get a ton of bonus SP and then do their openers.

That's what was going to happen, thankfully they seem to have scrapped that.

[xskarma]

That's what was going to happen, thankfully they seem to have scrapped that.

Always astounds me what people will think up to bend the rules to their advantage enough. I would have never even dreamt of using this kind of strategy to get the maximum out of AV. xD

[Deleted]

2 piece T15 set bonus tied into new DS version of AV would be awesome.

Our set bonuses are lacking, it wouldn't be enough. Currently, if you pop DS with full embers (which may not always be the case with RPPM trinkets), you get to cast 5 chaos bolts of 8 emberbits cost each, instead of 4 chaos bolts of 10 emberbits cost each. That alone takes at least 10 seconds, so during the first 10 seconds you saved up 1 ember. During the other 10 seconds you can build embers for 1 more chaos bolt (talking single target), which would cost 8 emberbits instead of 10. So all this would translate into 12 free emberbits (or 1,2 embers) every 2 minutes best case scenario. Couldn't compete with KJC.

I'd be happy if AV reduced the cooldown of AV, as this wouldnt have bad pvp implications. Ideally it would reduce the cd by 20% on top of the set bonus, and make us deal 10% more dmg during DS. I'd be ok with that.

[Deleted]

Always astounds me what people will think up to bend the rules to their advantage enough. I would have never even dreamt of using this kind of strategy to get the maximum out of AV. xD

Oh I know I would have done it (at least if it was working through SacPact or DB)

[Deleted]

This. Pulling it away from lining up with Springs and Service would be terrible. We hated it in Tier 14, why bring it back?

F**k your springs, I want to allign DS with the amplification trinket, much more important

[xskarma]

This. Pulling it away from lining up with Springs and Service would be terrible. We hated it in Tier 14, why bring it back?

Just a random thought, but they did say they were growing tired of the ever growing need to line everything up together (which I'd allready figured was their idea behind the RPPM change) so maybe they'll see this as an opportunity to give Warlocks this to break it up somewhat?

If the cooldown is short enough we'll take it anyway, cause it's strong, even if we hate the fact we have trouble lining everything up.

[Teye]

Always astounds me what people will think up to bend the rules to their advantage enough. I would have never even dreamt of using this kind of strategy to get the maximum out of AV. xD

Is it bad that it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the change? >_>

[Jessicka]

Just a random thought, but they did say they were growing tired of the ever growing need to line everything up together (which I'd allready figured was their idea behind the RPPM change) so maybe they'll see this as an opportunity to give Warlocks this to break it up somewhat?

If the cooldown is short enough we'll take it anyway, cause it's strong, even if we hate the fact we have trouble lining everything up.

If you can't line stuff up with eachother, you can't line it up on vulnerabilities in encounters and it just ends up gimping you more.