Mage 5.4 Discussion

[Polarthief]

IMO, the weak bonus is to compensate for fire's crit scaling. Being okay with Mages not going for 4 piece for a tier, and not adjusting CM while they work on a mage revamp seems like something they would be okay with at this point.

They pretty much said we're not getting a revamp for 6.0.

Also, remember when GC said the changes to our L90 talents are 'too big' for 5.4? Why did he say changes and not flat out removal?

Honestly, getting scared for 6.0, and if 5.4 gives us nothing...

[Frost1129]

They pretty much said we're not getting a revamp for 6.0.

Also, remember when GC said the changes to our L90 talents are 'too big' for 5.4? Why did he say changes and not flat out removal?

Honestly, getting scared for 6.0, and if 5.4 gives us nothing...

Reasons why I'm leveling another character to take over as my main. Mages have never had their concerns about core spec problems addressed. Still holding out some hope for 5.4, but I highly doubt anything is going to happen.

[Polarthief]

Reasons why I'm leveling another character to take over as my main. Mages have never had their concerns about core spec problems addressed. Still holding out some hope for 5.4, but I highly doubt anything is going to happen.

Well they revamped Lock when it was the least played class.

Perhaps we should form a union and quit our Mages til they fix em.

[Frost1129]

Well they revamped Lock when it was the least played class.

Perhaps we should form a union and quit our Mages til they fix em.

it's sad if that is what is required for appropriate action.

I want to post on the 5.4 PTR about some stuff (tier bonus at the least) but honestly, I feel like I'd be swinging into the wind and hoping to hit something. I wish the dev team was more communicative with us. Something like LoL or SC2, in that they talk about what they want to do with a patch, why they want to make changes, and potential ways to get there.

If they did stuff like that, I feel like we could easier think about how to help them move forward in a good direction. As it is now, we don't even know what the direction is - if it exists at all.

[Mastamage]

Since looking at the set bonuses and just spec scaling in general I have a few preliminary thoughts:

1) Frost has no issue proccing IL from BF procs right now. Why add a shit 100% proc? Don't fix it if it's not broken.

2) How are they intending to fix the mass amount of crit % Fire will get? I mean, shit, I'm assuming (I don't play fire) that mages are already at 50%+ crit w/out CM multiplier? I say get rid of that garbage multiplier altogether.

3) I like how our 4-set is like the Ele Shaman 2-set T15 (damaging spell proc from spell use).

4) Frost's scaling needs to be addressed STAT. I will remain Frost no matter what but the way everything is looking for 5.4 I might as well start gearing something less broken.

I think it's time we voiced our displeasure with Lhivera and GC (well, we already have and it seems to do no good). Let's try and "fix" the class within the tier sets. What a bunch of garbage that is. Address the real issues and stop with the band-aids. If warlocks can get an overhaul then so can mages.

Idk, those are my preliminary thoughts and I'm sure I'll grow more hatred towards what they're doing as the PTR continues on.

[Polarthief]

I think it's time we voiced our displeasure with Lhivera and GC (well, we already have and it seems to do no good). Let's try and "fix" the class within the tier sets. What a bunch of garbage that is. Address the real issues and stop with the band-aids. If warlocks can get an overhaul then so can mages.

It's pretty much known that they fix stuff based around popularity, hence why Warlocks got a revamp.

[Frost1129]

Since looking at the set bonuses and just spec scaling in general I have a few preliminary thoughts:

1) Frost has no issue proccing IL from BF procs right now. Why add a shit 100% proc? Don't fix it if it's not broken.

2) How are they intending to fix the mass amount of crit % Fire will get? I mean, shit, I'm assuming (I don't play fire) that mages are already at 50%+ crit w/out CM multiplier? I say get rid of that garbage multiplier altogether.

3) I like how our 4-set is like the Ele Shaman 2-set T15 (damaging spell proc from spell use).

4) Frost's scaling needs to be addressed STAT. I will remain Frost no matter what but the way everything is looking for 5.4 I might as well start gearing something less broken.

I think it's time we voiced our displeasure with Lhivera and GC (well, we already have and it seems to do no good). Let's try and "fix" the class within the tier sets. What a bunch of garbage that is. Address the real issues and stop with the band-aids. If warlocks can get an overhaul then so can mages.

Idk, those are my preliminary thoughts and I'm sure I'll grow more hatred towards what they're doing as the PTR continues on.

1) Grabbing one of my recent logs. On one fight I had 32 FFBs (all from BF). If FFB has a 15% chance to proc FoF, then I got ~5 ILs from it. I had a total of 35 FoF procs. So I'm going to assume thats 35 FoF>IL. If every BF gave me a IL, I'd have gotten 27 additional ILs, increasing the number of ILs I cast while under FoF from 35 to 62, a 77% increase in the number of ILs I got over the course of the fight. That's pretty significant for the second highest source of our damage. I did similar derp math on a few more of my logs, and got numbers that hovered around a ~70% increase in the number of FoF procs obtained on a fight.

2) Nerfing Crit Mass if it gets too out of control. Yes, top geared fire mages are a decent bit above 50% fully raid buffed.

3) What the set bonus for frost here is intended to do needs to be fleshed out (which can be done once it has proper numbers on it from Blizz, which it doesnt). Is it a boost for single target DPS? Is it to help frost cleave / AoE compete? We'll see.

[Erolian]

It's pretty much known that they fix stuff based around popularity, hence why Warlocks got a revamp.

Good plan. Put it off until everyone and their brother screams about it or almost entirely quits playing the class. Real classy Blizzard. Lets be real for a second though. Blizzard's vision is first and what the community wants is second. They try to make them fit together after doing what they want first in situations like this.

[Polarthief]

Good plan. Put it off until everyone and their brother screams about it or almost entirely quits playing the class. Real classy Blizzard

Oh I agree, it's fucking bullshit, but it's how they do things.

I don't get how a great company turns into this.

We've voiced our problems since LK; they go unheard of. We voice disliking the L90 talents since BETA; still nothing.

They see that Mage DPS is fine and still a fairly populated classes despite being the most outdated and broken (bad) of them all.

[Mastamage]

1) Grabbing one of my recent logs. On one fight I had 32 FFBs (all from BF). If FFB has a 15% chance to proc FoF, then I got ~5 ILs from it. I had a total of 35 FoF procs. So I'm going to assume thats 35 FoF>IL. If every BF gave me a IL, I'd have gotten 27 additional ILs, increasing the number of ILs I cast while under FoF from 35 to 62, a 77% increase in the number of ILs I got over the course of the fight. That's pretty significant for the second highest source of our damage. I did similar derp math on a few more of my logs, and got numbers that hovered around a ~70% increase in the number of FoF procs obtained on a fight.

Again, my thoughts were preliminary and I'm sure the PTR will change lots along the way. Personally, I find myself swimming in FoF procs but it's not going to be that way across the mage world. If that set bonus stays, I see the damage FoF does to be nerfed in order to compensate for our more frequent procs.

[Frost1129]

Again, my thoughts were preliminary and I'm sure the PTR will change lots along the way. Personally, I find myself swimming in FoF procs but it's not going to be that way across the mage world. If that set bonus stays, I see the damage FoF does to be nerfed in order to compensate for our more frequent procs.

When it comes to the frost spec, it needs anything but nerfs. Supplanting FB spam for more FoF>IL I think is a good way to give it more damage, and make mastery more attractive. I hope it stays that way (or gets better!)

[Mastamage]

When it comes to the frost spec, it needs anything but nerfs. Supplanting FB spam for more FoF>IL I think is a good way to give it more damage, and make mastery more attractive. I hope it stays that way (or gets better!)

I guess another way to look at it is as a guaranteed proc will give us slightly more mobility.

[Polarthief]

I guess another way to look at it is as a guaranteed proc will give us slightly more mobility.

... Huh, that is kinda true.

[Mastamage]

... Huh, that is kinda true.

The only downside is that we get more overwrite on BF procs if we hold onto it for mobility situations.

[Polarthief]

The only downside is that we get more overwrite on BF procs if we hold onto it for mobility situations.

Also more overwrite on FoF procs if we don't hold onto them.

It's a lose-lose situation.

[Vaelkder]

Hey everyone. It's Noob O' the Day question time...

In all honesty, who is this Lhivera person of whom so many speak (and rant), and why does this person have so much sway over what happens to the Mage class?

I read in a few posts that this person doesn't join in Raids, BGs, Dungeons or anything, and yet he is able to steer the THOUSANDS of Mages into the brink, getting the Blizzard Development Team to seemingly bend over and kiss their collective rear end while destroying one of the oldest classes in World of Warcraft.

How can he have so much power, when he doesn't even play the game? And how can that so-called Lead Developer, Ghost Crawler, justify the idiot bent which seems to be the Blizzard flavour of the day, on the word of ONE person out of thousands?

Isn't there a way to contact the upper management of the Blizzard company and make a formal complaint? After all, aren't the millions of people who pay the monthly subscription fee for their accounts the folks who pay the salaries of these hyper self-inflated egomaniacs?

Yes, I'm very new in the ranks, and yes, I am one of those people who is actually nicely geared and yet still suffers from horrid RNG (eleven Fireballs in a row without ONE Heating Up!, with Crit at 47+%, Haste at 5071 and Mastery at 28+%). I'm trying to learn, and trying to discover the WHY of it all, when it comes to the Fire Spec, but I cannot fathom anything more ridiculous than these jumped up data processing clerks who call themselves developers, when they cannot listen to the people who pay their salaries.

There must be a way to get the message across to these people, and to dethrone this "MVP" who doesn't seem to have an earthly clue regarding the REAL people who play this game.

I might be only one person, but my voice should be heard as clearly as the voice of any other individual. Joining together, we can have our collective voice heard around the world.

Thank you, and good luck to everyone. I hope that we can weather this storm of utter incompetency.

[Frost1129]

Hey everyone. It's Noob O' the Day question time...

In all honesty, who is this Lhivera person of whom so many speak (and rant), and why does this person have so much sway over what happens to the Mage class?

I read in a few posts that this person doesn't join in Raids, BGs, Dungeons or anything, and yet he is able to steer the THOUSANDS of Mages into the brink, getting the Blizzard Development Team to seemingly bend over and kiss their collective rear end while destroying one of the oldest classes in World of Warcraft.

How can he have so much power, when he doesn't even play the game? And how can that so-called Lead Developer, Ghost Crawler, justify the idiot bent which seems to be the Blizzard flavour of the day, on the word of ONE person out of thousands?

Isn't there a way to contact the upper management of the Blizzard company and make a formal complaint? After all, aren't the millions of people who pay the monthly subscription fee for their accounts the folks who pay the salaries of these hyper self-inflated egomaniacs?

Yes, I'm very new in the ranks, and yes, I am one of those people who is actually nicely geared and yet still suffers from horrid RNG (eleven Fireballs in a row without ONE Heating Up!, with Crit at 47+%, Haste at 5071 and Mastery at 28+%). I'm trying to learn, and trying to discover the WHY of it all, when it comes to the Fire Spec, but I cannot fathom anything more ridiculous than these jumped up data processing clerks who call themselves developers, when they cannot listen to the people who pay their salaries.

There must be a way to get the message across to these people, and to dethrone this "MVP" who doesn't seem to have an earthly clue regarding the REAL people who play this game.

I might be only one person, but my voice should be heard as clearly as the voice of any other individual. Joining together, we can have our collective voice heard around the world.

Thank you, and good luck to everyone. I hope that we can weather this storm of utter incompetency.

Lhivera was one of the major players in the mage TC community from Vanilla > WoTLK? (When EJ mage was in it's prime). He made a LOT of contributions to the community in a very positive way back then. Additionally, he was one of the few people to bridge the EJ - WoW Mage forums chasm. Very few people from the EJ community (what was the center for mage knowledge and know-how) gave two shits about the community outside of EJ. Lhivera brought the knowledge to the larger and more inculsive WoW:Mage forums and took the time to help the people there l2p. So he's the "mage lead" for the common player.

Unfortunately, he is also a dinosaur when it comes to mages right now. Out of date, out of practice, and out of touch with how mages currently play and "feel." Until he is replaced with someone who actually plays the class and has enough education and time to understand it in depth (and additionally has the time to explain how everything works in an easy manner to the lay-mage), we basically don't have a representative.

[SodiumChloride]

Hey everyone. It's Noob O' the Day question time...

In all honesty, who is this Lhivera person of whom so many speak (and rant), and why does this person have so much sway over what happens to the Mage class?

I read in a few posts that this person doesn't join in Raids, BGs, Dungeons or anything, and yet he is able to steer the THOUSANDS of Mages into the brink, getting the Blizzard Development Team to seemingly bend over and kiss their collective rear end while destroying one of the oldest classes in World of Warcraft.

How can he have so much power, when he doesn't even play the game? And how can that so-called Lead Developer, Ghost Crawler, justify the idiot bent which seems to be the Blizzard flavour of the day, on the word of ONE person out of thousands?

Isn't there a way to contact the upper management of the Blizzard company and make a formal complaint? After all, aren't the millions of people who pay the monthly subscription fee for their accounts the folks who pay the salaries of these hyper self-inflated egomaniacs?

Yes, I'm very new in the ranks, and yes, I am one of those people who is actually nicely geared and yet still suffers from horrid RNG (eleven Fireballs in a row without ONE Heating Up!, with Crit at 47+%, Haste at 5071 and Mastery at 28+%). I'm trying to learn, and trying to discover the WHY of it all, when it comes to the Fire Spec, but I cannot fathom anything more ridiculous than these jumped up data processing clerks who call themselves developers, when they cannot listen to the people who pay their salaries.

There must be a way to get the message across to these people, and to dethrone this "MVP" who doesn't seem to have an earthly clue regarding the REAL people who play this game.

I might be only one person, but my voice should be heard as clearly as the voice of any other individual. Joining together, we can have our collective voice heard around the world.

Thank you, and good luck to everyone. I hope that we can weather this storm of utter incompetency.

Lhivera? Sway? He isn't anymore influential than you or me.

GC doesn't care about "who you are", he judges feedback solely by their content.

Lhivera has MVP status because he has contributed good feedback (numbers, hard data and personal opinion on the feel of the class ... etc) - i.e. NOT "BLIZZARD WHY U IGNORE US?!?11"

[Polarthief]

Lhivera? Sway? He isn't anymore influential than you or me.

GC doesn't care about "who you are", he judges feedback solely by their content.

Lhivera has MVP status because he has contributed good feedback (numbers, hard data and personal opinion on the feel of the class ... etc) - i.e. NOT "BLIZZARD WHY U IGNORE US?!?11"

Trust us when we say that Lhiv, while doesn't have much power, definitely has more power than any of us.

Is it just coincidence that he's loved the L90 talents while an overwhelming majority of raiders are neutral/even more fully against them?

Also, every time I've tried to point out problems with the class, he just gave a typical, brown-nosing, comment that supports Blizzard's actions no matter what. He's definitely a bit of a dinosaur and out of touch with the rest of us.

[Deleted]

Trust us when we say that Lhiv, while doesn't have much power, definitely has more power than any of us.

What Power?! Power to change something in this game? He definately does not. Everybody who is willing to prove something to a developer, lead designer or someone else at blizzard has the same chance to do so.

I reallly respect theorycrafters but in the END it comes down to the game! INGAME. You can theorycraft all you want if you dont have the reactions to play this game efficiantly it means jack.

Lets be honoust here: The Mage class is not "fun" to play anymore in many parts ( I still think "blink" is the best skill in the game after 7 years and its the only reason i keep playing a mage) There is no "great" raid utilety...

BUT! in the END the Mage class does deliver Top End DMG in almost every encounter there is. We are highly mobile in most situations and can substain extreme amounts of incoming damage wihtout dieing.

Lets just hope we get an overhaul for the next X-Pac like warlocks did and until that point we will start of weak next patch again like it always was (With nerfs incoming) and rise to the top at the end of SoO