a shadow priest ethically dilemma

[Basemath]

Good decision. He will love you for it and he will owe you one. If you keep it, imagine it never drops again, neither normal nor thunderforged. He will secretly resent you for it forevermore.

[otro]

is UVLS even their bis? im thinking prob affliction only...

[Tehterokkar]

EPGP is probably more fair than DKP. At least in our guild, Going from Normal to Normal-TF is considered a Minor upgrade, and you get it for half the price. Also TF items are 50% more than non-TF items, so a minor upgrade (Normal -> Normal TF) is 75% of Normal item value.

But in the end, guilds that use DKP/EPGP still have the same issue "He/She who has the most points wins"

[veiledy0]

is UVLS even their bis? im thinking prob affliction only...

It's a must have in order to efficiently play Demo.

[Katchii]

Would the raid benefit the most by you having it or your warlock friend having it? There's your answer.

As someone said above, in raiding situations where your entire goal is progression and getting to that next boss or difficulty level or whatever, you need to make decisions that beneift everyone in the raid, not just you. While it might be BiS for you, you already have a version of it so your DPS increase might be negligible, whereas if your Warlock friend got it, his DPS would go up significantly enough to make your next boss fight much more doable.

[Yvaelle]

is UVLS even their bis? im thinking prob affliction only...

Demonology has a broken trick using UVLS - they multi-dot Doom when it goes procs, each critical tick of Doom causes Wild Imps to spawn: each of which gives you 50 Fury. So after a few multi-dots of Doom they can spam Chaos Wave - a spell that was meant to be a relatively rare thing, as hard and fast as they can for as long as the Imps remain: it's broken - just like UVLS for Shadow on 5.2 beta, except they never got nerfed.

For Affliction you can try to anticipate the proc a bit (but this is painful with RPPM procs) and not spend your Soul Swap then Soul Swap+Malefic Grasp (or Drain Soul ideally) for auto-crit dots + auto-crit MG/DS, but it's stronger for Shadow or Demonology where crits spawn adds. For Destruction, Chaos Bolt deals double damage when UVLS procs - so if you can help it you spend Burning Embers from the top so whenever UVLS procs you can try to get 2 Chaos Bolts out: UVLS CB's do ludicrous damage.

So it's pretty decent for all three warlock specs - but it's also quite good for us obviously. Regardless, next tier when you get a 541 upgraded to 549 Normal mode trinket, you'll replace your 522(530) or 528(536) UVLS's - the 535(543) and 541(549) versions might remain competitive through Normal modes, but if you aren't killing Heroic Lei Shen that won't be a conflict for most people.

[Cerbz]

I don't know anyone saying it's going to remain BIS for the rest of the expansion: especcially the 522/528 versions. Part of the reason UVLS is so good right now is synergy with our set bonuses - which we won't have next tier. More importantly though, 522 UVLS right now isn't better than any 535 trinket other than Wushoolay's (which sucks for us). So don't be too excited to hold onto UVLS over your guildies - you'll be replacing those normal version UVLS's with normal version Orgrimmar trinkets in 5.4 (541 for normal next tier, before item upgrades).

I highly doubt we'll drop UVLS next tier. Even without the set bonuses, it's just too good.

[veiledy0]

So it's pretty decent for all three warlock specs

UVLS is awful for destruction. Even trinkets such as Light of Cosmos and the Shado-Pan valor trinket surpass it.

[Yvaelle]

I highly doubt we'll drop UVLS next tier. Even without the set bonuses, it's just too good.

If it worked like it was originally announced to work before they broke our DoT snapshotting - I'd agree with you.

My math says UVLS isn't going to last (especcially 522/528), and Twintop's math agrees - where it is ranked 8th this tier - next tier will have even higher item level trinkets, and UVLS definitely won't last through that. If you want to point me to the math of another spriest theorycrafter that suggests UVLS (especcially 522/528 UVLS) will outpace 549 or 564 trinkets, I'd be very interested to read that.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 07:26 PM ----------

UVLS is awful for destruction. Even trinkets such as Light of Cosmos and the Shado-Pan valor trinket surpass it.

Granted, Destruction is my least favourite warlock spec by a mile, and my lock spends 90% of her time playing Affliction. To my knowledge Unerring Vision is second BiS for them only to Cha-Ye's - it's about on par with Wushoolays.

[Wycked]

Never join guilds that use dkp or epgp...Gear isn't something you earn its a tool. You earn kill dates, gear is irrelevant, anything that improves your chances of killing bosses should take precedence.

[veiledy0]

Granted, Destruction is my least favourite warlock spec by a mile, and my lock spends 90% of her time playing Affliction. To my knowledge Unerring Vision is second BiS for them only to Cha-Ye's - it's about on par with Wushoolays.

Same for my lock. Dots are more fun than nukes.
As for the trinket, UVLS is only theoretically 2nd BiS for them, while in practice it's not even close, as Destruction doesn't have much to do within those 4 seconds of the proc, 'cause knowing the RPPM nature of UVLS, it would require sitting on embers which is not really an option, as they have no choice but to Chaos Bolt when running close to OOM, or whenever their other trinket procs. Destro heavily favors trinkets that proc int, which makes both Wushoolay's and Cha-Ye's far better choices.

[Verain]

Never join guilds that use dkp or epgp...Gear isn't something you earn its a tool. You earn kill dates, gear is irrelevant, anything that improves your chances of killing bosses should take precedence.

Right, and then you have cybernetic angels do loot council right?

[Yvaelle]

Right, and then you have cybernetic angels do loot council right?

Ya EPGP is a great system - just use either verbose rules for what constitutes priority (ie. minor upgrade rules for thunderforged items, mains over trials over alts) - DKP is a bad system. Loot Council kills guilds - sometimes they go on for months or years without issue, but eventually all loot council guilds die - and loot council is often the cause.

[Bombino]

umm I don't even have any ilvl UVLS and I'm passing the first that drops to our lock, it's a bigger dps increase for demo plain and simple. I mean as long as he's trying as hard/shows up etc.

[veiledy0]

Loot Council kills guilds - sometimes they go on for months or years without issue, but eventually all loot council guilds die - and loot council is often the cause.

Enraged Revolution begs to differ :P


An active guild since Sunwell. 25M ofc.

Only reason Loot Council guilds die is 'cause they recruit emo kids who think loot > progress.

[Keosen]

It's OT but non-retarded loot council is the best loot distribution system out there, it benefits the raid and not the individuals.

[Xorn]

I don't know anyone saying it's going to remain BIS for the rest of the expansion: especcially the 522/528 versions. Part of the reason UVLS is so good right now is synergy with our set bonuses - which we won't have next tier. More importantly though, 522 UVLS right now isn't better than any 535 trinket other than Wushoolay's (which sucks for us). So don't be too excited to hold onto UVLS over your guildies - you'll be replacing those normal version UVLS's with normal version Orgrimmar trinkets in 5.4 (541 for normal next tier, before item upgrades).

It's good, don't get me wrong - but as soon as we data-mined the set bonuses I posted about the potential synergy with DoT re-applications and our set bonuses, and they flipped out and broke it for 5.2->5.3 (sorry all!), so it kind of works after 5.3, but the same kind of broken-ness has existed for Demonology from 5.2->present (auto-crit Doom applications) and was never nerfed, so it's probably going to remain better for your lock longer than it is for you.

It's still BiS for you, you have DKP, that gives you priority - but I'd pass it along: UVLS is clearly our BIS, but it's not unique or anything - you will definitely replace it.

Not only this, but for a Demo lock, there is a STRONG chance it will be BiS into next tier because of class mechanics, and not their tier synergy.

[Deleted]

If there is anything this thread has proven it's the weakness of the DKP system.

Not once has anybody mentioned (unless i missed it?) "What trinkets does the lock have?". That would be my first concern, and yet the DKP system completely ignores this.

Loot does not just upgrade the individual, it upgrades the team. If this Spriest already has the 522 version, the Thunderforged is a minor upgrade. The lock however (i'm assuming) does not have any version of the trinket, therefore this trinket would be a huge upgrade for the team. The choice is easy: It should go to the lock without hesitation.

I also have a lock in my team and if I was in a similar situation I wouldn't even bother opting for the trinket, I would pass. No doubt.

As it happens, we both have the 522 version (so far) so if the heroic version ever drops, it's up for grabs by either one of us or whichever will get the largest upgrade.

Loot Council > DKP

[Achtalon]

When I won Breath, I won it because I had 489 Light of the Cosmos over a warlock wearing two 522 trinkets, one of them VP, and neither UVLS. He was wondering if he should have rolled main spec (we use EPGP) rather than 1/2 tier upgrade, as he would have gotten it and it's much better than VP trinket. My response was that that would be kind of unfair as I needed the upgrade more, rather than watching people with 522s min/max.

Later, however, I had to wonder if I was overly obsessed with catching up my ilevel, especially as Light of the Cosmos normal is almost as good as VP trinket. Additionally, with my guild bringing trials to normal bosses in ToT, how would I feel if forced to roll 1/2 tier upgrade on UVLS while trials with worse trinkets can take priority by rolling main spec?

There was some discussion about rolling main spec for weapons/trinkets if you really needed them, and we've seen a few more breaths drop since then, including a couple heroic ones, so it really doesn't matter now (as in, the warlock is quite fine now^^). As to the OP's question, just try and remember how other people might feel (which as someone else pointed out, the fact that you're showing enough concern to ask is a good sign). You'd probably rather raid with people you liked and liked you, after all.

[Deleted]

You'd probably rather raid with people you liked and liked you, after all.

This.

As soon as a team see's loot as a competition amongst themselves, or anything else for that matter, it's the beginning of the end lol :P