Resto PvE in a bad place?

[allevia]

ok, so having raided as resto from the end of tbc to the end of cata, i've recently been trying to heal some tot 10hc fights and i can't help but feel as though i have no throughput in a 10m environment.
i've noticed it in some lfr runs too, plenty of overhealing, but very little effective healing. i'm at ~512 ilvl (i know not the best, but it should be capable at least), 3764 haste breakpoint, 48% mastery, 18% crit and 11k spirit.
i've always found shaman healing to be very reactive, but in mop, all healing seems to either be absorbs or smart heals, where if the absorbs get bypassed, chances are the damage is then not open to a reactive, but fully pre-emptive heal.

resto mastery also seems to be in need of a rework. currently it boosts our healing on low hp targets - again a nightmare with the absorbs and smart heals around. this makes it very weak (imo) in a raid environment, yet very strong in pvp - this makes blizz very reluctant to openly buff resto heals due to the strength in arena.

i'm open for advice on how to improve my throughput, and also to any ideas as to how our pve strength can be improved (over the 25m mana battery role) if you agree in the weakness of the spec.

[JudgePayne]

From what I have read and healed myself resto shamans shine in 25m but are not so strong in 10m raiding, I raid in 10m and my healing is ok ( disc priest, holy paladin and resto shaman) I will be on par with the paladin but no where near the priest as disc is very strong atm.

Hopefully in 5.4 we will be able to contend in both 10 and 25 man raiding better then we can now.

[Gendori]

You could try first by not doing the mana battery role then see how youre stacking up

[shammypie]

You could try first by not doing the mana battery role then see how youre stacking up

paste the haste breakpoints stack crit instead of mastery and don't go full spirit or your heals are crap. currently resto is pretty far behind but it doesn't mean you can preform in your role.

[Tiberria]

From what I have read and healed myself resto shamans shine in 25m but are not so strong in 10m raiding, I raid in 10m and my healing is ok ( disc priest, holy paladin and resto shaman) I will be on par with the paladin but no where near the priest as disc is very strong atm.

Hopefully in 5.4 we will be able to contend in both 10 and 25 man raiding better then we can now.

Shaman are actually more behind in 25 man than they are in 10 man on an aggregate level. They are coming in dead last on 11 of 13 fights, and are 5th place or last on every stacked fight. The notion that "Shaman are strong in 25 man" and "Shaman are amazing stacked healers" may have been true in previous tiers but are fallacies in the current raiding environment.

Shaman CDs are also actually weaker than those of other healers since the 25 man Tranq/DH/Revival buffs (and SLT was already significantly weaker). Shaman utility is decent as long as MTT is relevant (and it quickly becomes a fairly marginal source of regen when everyone has their legendary metas). Once mana is trivial, Shaman utility is probably below that of other healers, on top of having bottom of the barrel throughput.

[marklar]

you're right on pretty much all points. our mastery sounded really good when blizzard announced healing would require mana management and nobody would be at risk of being insta-gibbed by mechanics. well, that went out the window a long time ago; now mana is plentiful and anything under 3/4 hp is a death waiting to happen.

until blizzard stops trying to buff the class through HR, i don't see it changing anytime soon.

i do haste (7613) > spirit > crit >> mastery.
don't glyph riptide for most fights.
use your cooldowns often.

[Barrun]

Resto isn't necessarily in a bad place (10 mans), but that's not to say it's in a good place. In a 10 man I've yet to run into any troubles two healing with a holy paladin, there are some inherent flaws in our design at the moment but they shouldn't prevent you from getting the job done. I strongly suggest stacking crit in a 10 man environment, the meta gem can make a huge difference in personal performance as well. If you're currently three healing stuff try getting rid of a healer, that can make a huge difference.

[Deleted]

As Barrun said, 2-healing stuff is much more fun as a resto shaman : at least you can feel useful !
I raid normal 10 man with paladin + disc priest and most often there isn't enough to be healed for 3 healers, so as shaman is the less powerful/reactive of the three spec I often end dead last on the meters. Our 3rd healer is mainly here to prevent stupid deaths (very useful as we rarely have a battle rez).

Anyway, as it was said crit is your friend in 10 man. In last night Iron Qwon, I gained almost 400k mana from resurgence at ~32% crit raid-buffed, and I casted much more HR + CH than in most other ToT fights. If you feel ok with your mana you should definitely try to reforge some spirit to crit, I tend to find 9-10k spirit (+ regen trinkets) is a good spot, but I'm not doing HM yet. Crit is also nice for some smart spread healing with Ancestral Awakening (it's not quite reliable, but on fights like Tortos it can help a lot, even if you don't notice). Note that if there's only one or two fight for which you'd like more mana, you can also use spirit flask instead of intel. It's a shame to nerf your throughput for 90% of the fight so that you can heal the other 10%. Even better if you're alchemist as the bonus to spirit flask is greater than intel flask.

Also, you need to know that HST/HTT breakpoints are completely unreliable. If you want to optimize your stats you should look at your log to count your totems ticks and reforge haste as low as possible without loosing ticks. I noticed I had the extra ticks from HST even while being very far from the next breakpoint (like, 3k away from it!). That's why I prefer ignoring haste altogether until I can afford it while keeping good amounts of spirit and crit.
I'm currently going : spirit to 9.5-10k > crit to ~30% (raid buff) > haste.

[shammypie]

in the top end level, resto shamans are doing bad, on the lower end it comes down to skill more than anything.

[Scrotie]

in the top end level, resto shamans are doing bad, on the lower end it comes down to skill more than anything.

This sums up this whole arguement right here. You can play your class as best as you can an kind of overcome the short comings your class has. I find myself happy with my shaman. Do I think that somethings could be improved of course. But I also make due with what I got an I do a decent job at it. If your not pushing for world firsts or realm firsts then you should be able to over come the class weaknesses we have an still contribute to your team in a good way. I get beat by my co healer a disc priest in almost every fight but the boss dies and we get loots so my job is done.

[Totemtown]

You know... It's funny when people say I can 2 heal Stuff at a decent level 3 Months after progression is over... Try 2 healing a fight back then tell me how it goes... But i doubt any guild would use a resto shaman 3 months ago rather than a holy paly and disc priest, For example No guild in 10m took a resto shaman to Lei shen Because even with Healing Tide / Ascendance / Spirit Link That wasn't enough because you need Sustained Hps... For Winds AND Thunderstruck, So until Blizzard Makes Changes Most resto shamans won't be seen In SOO, Especially the first 3 bosses i tested so far.

[ganiccus]

You know resto shamans are in a bad place when the smart heal proc from Lightning-Imbued Chalice trinket (Lei Shen heroic upgraded to 543 ilvl) does more effective healing than Earth Shield, one of our signature spells. My healing logs from last night raid:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-la...a4/details/12/

[Scrotie]

We started 2 healing fights in ToT when raid ilvl was 508-510. thats just about the ilvl heroic guilds went into ToT with. It wasnt easy but stuff died after enough attempts an the fights became for familar. So it can be done. maybe not as easy as you would like it or as easy as wow has made you think it should be but it was doable.

[shammypie]

You know... It's funny when people say I can 2 heal Stuff at a decent level 3 Months after progression is over... Try 2 healing a fight back then tell me how it goes... But i doubt any guild would use a resto shaman 3 months ago rather than a holy paly and disc priest, For example No guild in 10m took a resto shaman to Lei shen Because even with Healing Tide / Ascendance / Spirit Link That wasn't enough because you need Sustained Hps... For Winds AND Thunderstruck, So until Blizzard Makes Changes Most resto shamans won't be seen In SOO, Especially the first 3 bosses i tested so far.

winds don't do damage you just have to balance movement and healing (ghost wolf ftw). thunderstruck was burst healing and was easy enough to cover with proper timing of hst and CH (glyphed). plus you had collapse moments you can time for added HR boosting. SLT was great for surviving intermission as well as the glyph of hst.

what exactly are you doing that CAN'T heal Lei Shen? Remember there is a difference between CAN'T and NOT AS EFFECTIVELY.

[Totemtown]

winds don't do damage you just have to balance movement and healing (ghost wolf ftw). thunderstruck was burst healing and was easy enough to cover with proper timing of hst and CH (glyphed). plus you had collapse moments you can time for added HR boosting. SLT was great for surviving intermission as well as the glyph of hst.

what exactly are you doing that CAN'T heal Lei Shen? Remember there is a difference between CAN'T and NOT AS EFFECTIVELY.

First off, Violent Gale winds does do damage and it does 15000 Damage on heroic + Windburn which adds 5% on every wind, Second Thunderstruck does WAAY more Damage and third Theres Ball lightning adds and soaks. I'm talking about Heroic lei shen. K ty
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