Who are the Faceless Ones? Why are Old Gods warring?

[zito]

The nature of Cho'Gall's transformation and C'Thun's current status hasn't been made clear. The Twilight Cult was in Northrend worshipping Yogg-Saron as well, so not all elements of the cult are devoted to C'Thun.

It's been pointed out that Cho'Gall's transformation is somewhat similar to Garrosh's in the upcoming raid after he starts mucking around with Y'Shaarj's heart. How much of the consciousness of the Old God's survives in their remains is not clear - it could just be whispers. We've been told that Garrosh is in command of his power, so Cho'Gall might be the one(s?) calling the shots rather than C'Thun directly.

It can also be his connection to deathwing which is a direct link to N'zoth. Point is twilight hammers ultimate goal is the extinction of Azeroth and they will side with whoever to do that.

Cho'gal met C'thun first and then Deathwing/N'zoth. That's just how it ended up really.

[Golden Yak]

It can also be his connection to deathwing which is a direct link to N'zoth. Point is twilight hammers ultimate goal is the extinction of Azeroth and they will side with whoever to do that.

Yeah, and actually N'Zoth's apparent mastery of Deathwing makes me think that he is indeed the most powerful of the Old Gods. Between Deathwing, the Cataclysm, the naga (probably mutated by N'Zoth) and the Emerald Nightmare, he's got a lotta dogs in the fire.

[zito]

Yeah, and actually N'Zoth's apparent mastery of Deathwing makes me think that he is indeed the most powerful of the Old Gods. Between Deathwing, the Cataclysm, the naga (probably mutated by N'Zoth) and the Emerald Nightmare, he's got a lotta dogs in the fire.

We don't know about the old god in the eastern kingdoms though. He seems to have been idol since the beginning of azeroth. Or maybe N'zoth is also spread to the eastern kingdoms.

[leaks]

No no - C'Thun is merged with Cho'gall. This is why you see the eyes and thorns all over him. C'Thun was "killed" by us (or whoever for lore purposes) and Cho'gall found and merged with him (similar, I assume, to Garrosh and Y'Shaarj). So it goes well beyond just being linked. The Twilight Cult itself is headed by C'Thun himself.

They didn't merge. He was granted power, that's it. He was then further transformed as a punishment for his failure. There was no merge at all.

[zito]

http://www.wowpedia.org/Airwyn%27s_Journal

http://www.wowpedia.org/Garley%27s_Journal

^Old god in Eastern kingdoms. It seems there are pieces of his remains that were unearthed during the shattering. I suspect long ago when the old gods were at war with each other. N'zoth or Hakkar (since Hakkar is a god) obliterated the old god so he is a state of simulated death.

[ciggy]

Like I said sub species.

But nobody is reading my theorys and I think my azhara one with N'zoth is a good one :'(

I did, and Its a good take on it.

All this is real fucking interesting to a lorenerd like myself.

[kendro1200]

In the quests The Faceless Ones and Proof of Demise: Herald Volazj, Kilix the Unraveler and Archmage Lan'dalock say that as the nerubians fought the Scourge, they dug deeper underground as they lost ground to the undead. "We inadvertently exposed a tendril of the old god's will, which was made manifest in the creatures known only as the Faceless."

I think this is the key thing to take away from this. As we saw with a few individuals going faceless. The faceless appear to be organic matter that has been fully corrupted by the old gods. Whether or not they can reproduce is another matter, but we do know that they are often hidden in the dark places of the world. As for the "old god in outland", it merely uses the c'thun model with a slightly different skin and is named old_god_outland or something like that, but it was never confirmed to be an actual old god. To top it off, in Cata we learned that physical form isn't always an actual old god, there are other creatures that have a form such as that, which may suggest that the old gods may not even have form, they simply posses things with form and corrupt it. Hence why they can never truly die, and why the Titans were more inclined to just lock them up for all time and eternity. Because if there is something that just goes around and posses corporeal beings after they die, you really would have to kill all life in order to get rid of them, and even then, that may not do the trick.

[chrisisvacant]

They didn't merge. He was granted power, that's it. He was then further transformed as a punishment for his failure. There was no merge at all.

Hmm? When trying to resurrect C'Thun, Cho'gall was stopped by Med'an. In the process, Cho'gall is horribly disfigured with a striking resemblance to C'Thun (tons of eyes and thorns) and powers resembling C'Thun's.

C'Thun is clearly very close to if not a part of Cho'gall:

(The claws of fate grasp the unbelievers!!)
What madness have we wrought... (Not yet enough!)
I... can't take much more... (Brother, it merely begins!!)
(The Master sees, the Master SEES!)
(The Master's eye sees all that was and all to be, or not!)

Brother... we are shattered... (But The Master... I still hear... so angry... Master...)
Brother... we are shattered... let her... finish them... (The Master... does not want them near her... Brother... The Master seethes...)

---------- Post added 2013-06-26 at 12:58 AM ----------

We don't know about the old god in the eastern kingdoms though. He seems to have been idol since the beginning of azeroth. Or maybe N'zoth is also spread to the eastern kingdoms.

Is it possible that Yogg-Saron is the one mentioned in regards to EK? Since Yogg-Saron already has tangential connection to the EK through the Lich King, it could be possible that Soggoth was the physical representative of Yogg during some epic battle and it is him they refer to, not a real old god?

Additionally, Hakkar the Blood God does not really relate to the Old Gods I think. It's like the difference between the August Celestials and the Dragon Aspects, etc.

[zito]

I did, and Its a good take on it.

All this is real fucking interesting to a lorenerd like myself.

I have concluded that N'zoth was not originally the old god of the seas but the old god of the eastern kingdoms and that Ny'alotha was part of it long ago before the titans sunk it with N'zoth and froze him into a dream state. That is why there has been no big indication besides remains of an old god in blue crystal (much like saronite with yogg) because the Titans removed him from the continent and into the sea.

---------- Post added 2013-06-26 at 01:03 AM ----------

Is it possible that Yogg-Saron is the one mentioned in regards to EK? Since Yogg-Saron already has tangential connection to the EK through the Lich King, it could be possible that Soggoth was the physical representative of Yogg during some epic battle and it is him they refer to, not a real old god?

Additionally, Hakkar the Blood God does not really relate to the Old Gods I think. It's like the difference between the August Celestials and the Dragon Aspects, etc.

No I changed my theory to N'zoth originating from the EK based on clues. Hakkar I think has a relation to N'zoth has Hakkar has a small connection with the dream.

Now I'm trying to pin point where Ny'alotha could have been in the EK. It has to be around the vale and kara since that is where we find the evidence after the shattering.

Hmm? When trying to resurrect C'Thun, Cho'gall was stopped by Med'an. In the process, Cho'gall is horribly disfigured with a striking resemblance to C'Thun (tons of eyes and thorns) and powers resembling C'Thun's.

C'Thun is clearly very close to if not a part of Cho'gall:

(The claws of fate grasp the unbelievers!!)
What madness have we wrought... (Not yet enough!)
I... can't take much more... (Brother, it merely begins!!)
(The Master sees, the Master SEES!)
(The Master's eye sees all that was and all to be, or not!)

Brother... we are shattered... (But The Master... I still hear... so angry... Master...)
Brother... we are shattered... let her... finish them... (The Master... does not want them near her... Brother... The Master seethes...)

That's a side affect of corruption of the old god. Not necessarily fusing with it.

[leaks]

Hmm? When trying to resurrect C'Thun, Cho'gall was stopped by Med'an. In the process, Cho'gall is horribly disfigured with a striking resemblance to C'Thun (tons of eyes and thorns) and powers resembling C'Thun's.

C'Thun is clearly very close to if not a part of Cho'gall:

(The claws of fate grasp the unbelievers!!)
What madness have we wrought... (Not yet enough!)
I... can't take much more... (Brother, it merely begins!!)
(The Master sees, the Master SEES!)
(The Master's eye sees all that was and all to be, or not!)

Brother... we are shattered... (But The Master... I still hear... so angry... Master...)
Brother... we are shattered... let her... finish them... (The Master... does not want them near her... Brother... The Master seethes...)

He's transformed before fighting Med'an and given the power to summon a faceless one. He attacked Theramore with said faceless one and lost. When he returned to C'thun he was punished by being transformed even further. He then planned to just kill Me'dan and use the power of his death to resurrect C'thun. He failed again and vanished until Cata. C'thun speaks directly to him, that's why he says those things.

[Tyrannica]

the old gods are simply like the greek gods, they like to play with the mortal races and their creations, i am sure they don't directly harm themselves, just let their minions clash in wars like action figures.

[Thage]

Long story short, why the Old Gods war with one another and who the Faceless Ones are will probably never be fully explained, just like the Old Ones and their shaggoth servants from the Lovecraft mythos.

[Golden Yak]

Re.: Cho'Gall - I actually see some parallels between Cho'Gall and Shaohao, the pandaren emperor. When C'Thun 'died', presuming he suffered the same fate as Y'Shaarj when Ahn'Qiraj was unsealed, his essence would have bled into the surrounding land, just like Y'Shaarj's did in Pandaria. Like Shaohao, Cho'Gall drew upon the essence and called it into himself. But unlike Shaohao, Cho'Gall did not (as far as we know) cause that essence to become physical entities, as Shaohao did to give rise to the Sha.

Cho'Gall instead kept it, becoming a hideous monster. Just as Garrosh becomes using the last bit of Y'Shaarj's power that remained within his physical remnants.

Makes me really want to see a new version of Silithus/Ahn'Qiraj in the aftermath of all of Cho'Gall's shenanigans.

[starlord]

its stated somewhere that the faceless ones are corrupted mortals.

[chrisisvacant]

its stated somewhere that the faceless ones are corrupted mortals.

O.o

Now that is an interesting concept (though it kind of is similar to what is brought up earlier in this thread re: corrupted residue given sentience). Any idea where this is posted?

[WeaponXAnimosity]

With the way Blizz handles big baddies (Lich King comes to mind), we'll prolly be able to eventually kill the Old Gods (or Sargeras) and the whole mystery and uberness to em will disappear quickly. Just like how Lich King became farmable.

[Golden Yak]

O.o

Now that is an interesting concept (though it kind of is similar to what is brought up earlier in this thread re: corrupted residue given sentience). Any idea where this is posted?

There are some moments in game where players and NPCs are transformed into faceless ones - I believe there's an Alliance quest in Twilight Highlands where a dwarf transforms into one. Personally, I think this is more an indication that the Old Gods spawn the faceless or subvert other races to become faceless, rather than the faceless ever existing independent of the Old Gods.

[Thimagryn]

I see the Old Gods as being very similar to the source material - the Great Old Ones of Lovecraft.

They're primal beings with immense power whose sole purpose is beyond human understanding. They are the epitome of chaos, and understanding their true nature causes insanity for any mere mortal.

In Warcraft terms, there's a lot more 'Good vs Evil' undertones, but at its core the Old Gods are supposed to represent an overwhelming primal force that simply exists.

It's great seeing how much chaos they sow without even controlling their minions. Case in point - Blackrock spire. You have the Dark Horde fighting the Dark Irons for control for the whole place, not knowing they ultimately serve the same masters - the Old Gods.

[Golden Yak]

I've always thought of the Old Gods as twisted reflections of the titans.

The titans strive for order in the universe while the Old Gods desire eternal chaos.

The Burning Legion is sort of a third, late arrival to the game, and they want obliteration - absolute nothingness. Sargeras' solution to chaos.

[starlord]

O.o

Now that is an interesting concept (though it kind of is similar to what is brought up earlier in this thread re: corrupted residue given sentience). Any idea where this is posted?

one of the in-game books i think, cant remember which.