PTR 5.4 Caster Trinkets first look.

[Deleted]

FYI, the normal upgraded wush also has a rppm of 1,21, so it stands to reason that it doesnt scale with budget increase, atleast my normal wush has a 1,21 rppm on the ptr.

[Deleted]

FYI, the normal upgraded wush also has a rppm of 1,21, so it stands to reason that it doesnt scale with budget increase, atleast my normal wush has a 1,21 rppm on the ptr.

The only proc coefficient of a trinket that scales with itemlevel is UVLS afaik, and the reason is because the proc itself doesn't make sense to be scaled up.

[Deleted]

The only proc coefficient of a trinket that scales with itemlevel is UVLS afaik, and the reason is because the proc itself doesn't make sense to be scaled up.

There is also Rune of Re-origination, but yes this is true.

How does crit scaling work exactly? Is it just base RPPM x (1 + crit chance) ?

[Deleted]

There is also Rune of Re-origination, but yes this is true.

How does crit scaling work exactly? Is it just base RPPM x (1 + crit chance) ?

Yes, exactly. As an example, Cha-Ye's (522) - [0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance)].

[Deleted]

Yes, exactly. As an example, Cha-Ye's (522) - [0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance)].

Seems like Cha-Ye is getting insane RPPM as well, with a base of 1.00. I think Breath is still better for affliction, but it would be a very solid choice for our other specs.

[Deleted]

Cha ye has that extra 0.8085 coefficient, because it scales with crit. You need ~23.7% crit to bring that coefficient up to value 1. Breath having a fixed 1.1 coefficient on PTR atm and Wush a fixed 1.21 coefficient, unless you stack crit for cha-ye, breath/wush will proc more often.

Edit: you need 36.05% crit chance to bring cha-ye's coefficient to 1.1 RPPM, and 49.66% crit chance to bring it to 1.21 RPPM.

[Deleted]

Cha ye has that extra 0.8085 coefficient, because it scales with crit. You need ~23.7% crit to bring that coefficient up to value 1. Breath having a fixed 1.1 coefficient on PTR atm and Wush a fixed 1.21 coefficient, unless you stack crit for cha-ye, breath/wush will proc more often.

Edit: you need 36.05% crit chance to bring cha-ye's coefficient to 1.1 RPPM, and 49.66% crit chance to bring it to 1.21 RPPM.

Ah alright, that's not as great then. With Wushoolay is also isn't that easy to catch it at 10 stacks, almost have to stop casting since it's just 1 second. But even at 9 stacks it is the biggest int proc available until heroic Garrosh, and that with 1.21 RPPM. Almost certainly BiS for the whole tier in its current version.

[Deleted]

They could modify it to have only 5 bigger stacks instead of 10.

[Grizelda]

They should modify it to have only 5 bigger stacks instead of 10.

Fixed that for you.

[Xorn]

Cha ye has that extra 0.8085 coefficient, because it scales with crit. You need ~23.7% crit to bring that coefficient up to value 1. Breath having a fixed 1.1 coefficient on PTR atm and Wush a fixed 1.21 coefficient, unless you stack crit for cha-ye, breath/wush will proc more often.

Edit: you need 36.05% crit chance to bring cha-ye's coefficient to 1.1 RPPM, and 49.66% crit chance to bring it to 1.21 RPPM.

However, that's total crit chance, and not necessarily crit chance on your character sheet. Things like SF and CB which always crit will bring your combat crit % higher than it actually is on your character sheet, not to mention things like UVLS Doom.

[Brusalk]

However, that's total crit chance, and not necessarily crit chance on your character sheet. Things like SF and CB which always crit will bring your combat crit % higher than it actually is on your character sheet, not to mention things like UVLS Doom.

RPPM doesn't work like that. The trinket procs off of crits, but it's actual RPPM value is increased only by crit % on the character sheet.

[Xorn]

RPPM doesn't work like that. The trinket procs off of crits, but it's actual RPPM value is increased only by crit % on the character sheet.

Yes I know. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that in practice, you will see more procs than you might expect from your RPPM value due to the fact that certain abilities will always crit. More crits = more chances to proc, and then, in theory, more procs.

[Brusalk]

Yes I know. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that in practice, you will see more procs than you might expect from your RPPM value due to the fact that certain abilities will always crit. More crits = more chances to proc, and then, in theory, more procs.

RPPM was designed such that frequency of proc chances doesn't have an impact on the number of procs you get. The only thing that matters is the time since the last proc, and the current RPPM value of the trinket.

In practice there is (apparently) a super small increase in proc chance the more attacks you have, but it's not noticeable in any way and isn't significant.

[Deleted]

RPPM was designed such that frequency of proc chances doesn't have an impact on the number of procs you get. The only thing that matters is the time since the last proc, and the current RPPM value of the trinket.

In practice there is (apparently) a super small increase in proc chance the more attacks you have, but it's not noticeable in any way and isn't significant.

I wonder how that actually works though. Do they have a set number for each spec to calculate chances to proc on each attack? Or do they see how often you hit during a certain period and go off that?

[Xorn]

RPPM was designed such that frequency of proc chances doesn't have an impact on the number of procs you get. The only thing that matters is the time since the last proc, and the current RPPM value of the trinket.

In practice there is (apparently) a super small increase in proc chance the more attacks you have, but it's not noticeable in any way and isn't significant.

Hmm. I could Have sworn I see Cha-Ye's proc far more often for Demo/Destro than for Affliction with the exact same gear, but perhaps I was mistaken, or this is just another case of false anecdotal evidence.

I know that proc chance increases the more time has passed, but logically speaking you can still get lucky on a low proc chance if you have a lot of crits. It's not like the trinket will suppress a proc or anything. I often have overlapping procs on CB and SF spams. Again, this is all anecdotal at best, but the fact remains that in the grand scheme of things the more chances to proc you have, the more procs you are going to get. It's not a trinket mechanic, it's statistical distribution. RPPM may smooth out streaks of bad luck, but it doesn't hinder good luck.

[Deleted]

In practice there is (apparently) a super small increase in proc chance the more attacks you have, but it's not noticeable in any way and isn't significant.

well, from the formulas that blizz have given, increasing your attack frequency, causes each of your attacks to have a smaller chance to proc, so if you spam chaos bolts, they would in theory have a greater chance to proc a trinket than say some1 spamming touch of chaos, so you might have an atack frequency of 1,5 secs which might give each of your attacks 6% chance to proc your trinket, if you then suddenly have an attack frequncy every sec, then your attacks would "only" have a 4% chance to proc your trinket, in theory it should even out in the long run.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm. I could Have sworn I see Cha-Ye's proc far more often for Demo/Destro than for Affliction with the exact same gear, but perhaps I was mistaken, or this is just another case of false anecdotal evidence.

I know that proc chance increases the more time has passed, but logically speaking you can still get lucky on a low proc chance if you have a lot of crits. It's not like the trinket will suppress a proc or anything. I often have overlapping procs on CB and SF spams. Again, this is all anecdotal at best, but the fact remains that in the grand scheme of things the more chances to proc you have, the more procs you are going to get. It's not a trinket mechanic, it's statistical distribution. RPPM may smooth out streaks of bad luck, but it doesn't hinder good luck.

the only difference between afflic and demo and destro is that demo and destro have attacks that will give always give you a chance to proc cha-ye like soul fire and chaos bolt, in the long run it should be fairly even bcoz it will still only give you a chance to proc based on how often you attack aka attack frequency or rather crit frequency in cha-ye's case.

well you also need to keep in mind that in the grand scheme of things, you'll still only get the amount of procs based on your rppm trinket, if you have great luck on the first 3 min of a fight, then you might have equally bad luck on the last 3 min of the same fight, eventually it all evens out, you wont get more procs than your rppm trinket allows, if you only look at 1 particular fight then yes, you might get more procs than you should, but if you look on your amount of procs during the entire raid, then you'll most likely see that it is very close to the amount you should be getting.

hopefully this makes a little sense, as its late and i was tired when i wrote it lol.

[Janglybits]

Still disappointed in these changes. On one hand, I appreciate that we'll perhaps get a little more mileage out of BotH and Wush, but there really isn't any particular SoO trinket that I'm excited about now.

[Deleted]

i am too, black blood of y'shaarj went from god-like to a waste of space and it is really poor planning if we have to keep our t15 trinkets for most of progression if not all bcoz the t16 trinkets are crap.

[Hatelocker]

i am too, black blood of y'shaarj went from god-like to a waste of space and it is really poor planning if we have to keep our t15 trinkets for most of progression if not all bcoz the t16 trinkets are crap.

I haven't seen any numbers yet, but I thought the amp trinket at least was still BiS even after the recent changes.

[Deleted]

it still is, just with a very very small margin, normal wush fully upgraded gives you 1580 hit and up to 14360 int with an rppm of 1,21, the amp trinket gives me 7% mastery, haste and critdmg which for me will result in about 960 haste and 800ish mastery and 7% critdmg and it procs 11761 int, so as you can see, the amp trinket is around 23 ilvls higher than the wush but it barely shows, only the static part of the amp trinket helps put it over the top which then further declines when you take into account that the proc which is lower than wush but also has an icd of 115 sec, meaning that wush will proc more than twice as much on average.