So much for Sub in 5.4

[SilkDath]

4pc has been nerfed in to the ground, 4% chance to proc an ambush down from guaranteed ambush every 4 backstabs.

But someone said that SV is now triggered from Hemo?

Take with one hand, and give with the other I guess, but not proportionately.

[Pikapika]

The SV thing is from a glyph placeholder spell. Not a perfect solution, but it's something.

[Koji2k11]

the 4pc was like the hidden t15 for combat but it didnt work out way to OP and ppl mostly mages or hunters were complaning i guess ^^

[the9tail]

Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins: Your Saunguinary Veins ability now also increases damage done to targets affected by your Hemorrhage.

[sinisterwyvern]

"4 piece nerfed (even though it wasn't live yet so it can't actually be nerfed if it's not out), better quit the game"

[bzhai]

Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins: Your Saunguinary Veins ability now also increases damage done to targets affected by your Hemorrhage.

Sounds like a slight buff to use Hemorrhage but sounds like it still requires Rupture to activate Sanguinary Veins.

[Infective]

Sounds like a slight buff to use Hemorrhage but sounds like it still requires Rupture to activate Sanguinary Veins.

How does it sound like that at all?

[Deleted]

Sounds like a slight buff to use Hemorrhage but sounds like it still requires Rupture to activate Sanguinary Veins.

Sounds like SV can be applied with Hemorrhage with that glyph, like it was during Cata. Which is a terrific change for Sub, pvp wise.

[Verain]

The 4pc was WAY too fucking good. Understand that find weakness is something like a 47% damage increase to your physical damage whilst active. Right now, it's active during and after dance, after vanish, and after meld if you didn't pick a race with lesser genes. But it's NOT active a hell of a lot of the time. The previous set bonus was probably something like a +30% overall increase in damage or something- wildly overpowered.

I think the SangV glyph will be saddled by a "..but your sangv now only increases damage by 18%" or something like that. That glyph should totally exist for pvp, but it will really make rupture kind of optional in pve- which is, I'll be honest, kind of surprising if they go through with it. Remember that back in Cata, we had to get energy regen from recup. I greatly preferred that design for sub.

[Linneth]

The 4pc was WAY too fucking good. Understand that find weakness is something like a 47% damage increase to your physical damage whilst active. Right now, it's active during and after dance, after vanish, and after meld if you didn't pick a race with lesser genes. But it's NOT active a hell of a lot of the time. The previous set bonus was probably something like a +30% overall increase in damage or something- wildly overpowered.

I think the SangV glyph will be saddled by a "..but your sangv now only increases damage by 18%" or something like that. That glyph should totally exist for pvp, but it will really make rupture kind of optional in pve- which is, I'll be honest, kind of surprising if they go through with it. Remember that back in Cata, we had to get energy regen from recup. I greatly preferred that design for sub.

I would say that anyone bothering to deal with Subtely PvE (aka hard route) wouldn't incur on a straight dps loss just to "causalize" the rotation, you would be better rolling Assassination instead.

[Gestopft]

The 4pc was WAY too fucking good.

This guy has it right. Every 4th Backstab would've pretty much given 100% uptime on Find Weakness.

[Senka]

Anyone reading that note should keep in mind how that % chance is likely far from final and they haven't decided on the right number yet. It's probably just 4% because 4 was the number present in the previous iteration.

I'm not really fond of procs like these, whatever the % chance is, compared to something you can plan out but I understand why it was changed.

[SilkDath]

It is really uninspired also, lets copy paste Assassinations proc mechanic for a 4 set. Kinda like how Enh Shamans get a lava lash proc from flame shock.

[Coldkil]

A nerf for the 4t16 was expected - it was way too powerful. I like alot anyway the hemo glyph - very useful for short-living adds and maybe daily/solo play. Definitely a QoL increase.

[finn]

well, it's from hero to zero again, i guess.

i really don't like the way they changed the 4p-bonus. it was reliable, now it's RNG. i agree with senka and silkdath, that makes it boring and uninspired. i really do hope the number isn't final yet; a 4% chance on a skill? might be next to non-existant.
so, my final hopes rest on this CD-reduction trinket. but even with that, i see assas and combat dominating.

the glyphs seem to be quite nice, especially hemo (god, i love that for pvp! takes some of that "clunkiness" away!).

[Deleted]

This guy has it right. Every 4th Backstab would've pretty much given 100% uptime on Find Weakness.

Uptime will still be incredibly high with the increased cooldown recovery rate trinket. Shadow Dance every 43 sec, Vanish every 86 sec, Shadow Blades every 129 sec and this additionnal chance to proc an Ambush? Oh, boy.

[Kassadin]

The 4pc was WAY too fucking good. Understand that find weakness is something like a 47% damage increase to your physical damage whilst active. Right now, it's active during and after dance, after vanish, and after meld if you didn't pick a race with lesser genes. But it's NOT active a hell of a lot of the time. The previous set bonus was probably something like a +30% overall increase in damage or something- wildly overpowered.

I think the SangV glyph will be saddled by a "..but your sangv now only increases damage by 18%" or something like that. That glyph should totally exist for pvp, but it will really make rupture kind of optional in pve- which is, I'll be honest, kind of surprising if they go through with it. Remember that back in Cata, we had to get energy regen from recup. I greatly preferred that design for sub.

Well, Subtlety Rogues would still use rupture in PvE.... since it still actually does more damage overall than an eviscerate.

[Deleted]

Uptime will still be incredibly high with the increased cooldown recovery rate trinket. Shadow Dance every 43 sec, Vanish every 86 sec, Shadow Blades every 129 sec and this additionnal chance to proc an Ambush? Oh, boy.

Yup, but with that assassination and combat will also be buffed making the buff sub will get not isolated, been stuck playing assassination for 2 tiers already, if I have to play it a third tier to be competitive and push the best numbers it would really suck tbh.

[kaptan]

Are you even play sub in pve ?

[fierydemise]

To add some numbers to this discussion, best case scenario is on average 12-15% increased FW uptime from the set bonus assuming no overlap. Obviously with RNG you could see some pretty substantial swings but on average you should expect around .7-.9 additional ambushes per minute under this bonus. This is without the CD reducing trinket.