Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[Normie]

So basically you feel that regardless of effort (simply being logged in for more hours that someone else does not mean you are giving more effort) everyone should have access to the same things?

I put in 150 hours a week, where's my gladiator title dammit?!?! I put in 150 hours a week, where's my cool mount?!?!?!?!??!!!1

All it takes to get the legendary is lots and lots and lots and lots of grinding. However, clearing half of a heroic instance and no more isn't the right kind of grinding.

[Dreknar20]

, and better gear.

gear that shares the same model as all difficulties - thats only makes it marginally better

[Dormie]

Yes that argument again because its 100% true and 100% fact don't like it don't do it as a hardcore player you clam to be you have many choice's pick something else and be happy.

Some players only have time to do LFR some have a little bit more time to do LFR+something else and then there is those who have time to do everything and it seems you fall into the 3rd bracket with all your comments so just remove this 1 thing from your list of things to do.

You saying it's true, doesn't make it true. The problems with LFR expand outside of what you personally experience while running it. So help me if you ask why I'm gonna give you quotes from all 93 pages of this thread.

[GrieverXIII]

Oyh really!?!?! Wanna tell me what I should eat for lunch tmrrw too? Since You apprantly know more bout myself then myself.

Mind you, this is the people telling us to not tell them how they should play the game, but its perfectly fine for them to tell us what we should be considering worth putting efforts in and prestigious.

Those double standards sure are entertaining.

[Normie]

The thing you read on these board...

It's funny how people, you no doubt, will tell people "Well if you don't want to grind GL and SP you don't need the enchants" and then when someone says "Well if you don't want to run LFR to make up for bosses your lazy raid didn't clean up on normal you don't need the legendary" it's some kind of craziness.

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Why do the critics of lesser skilled players feel entitled to be special ponies?

[alturic]

All it takes to get the legendary is lots and lots and lots and lots of grinding. However, clearing half of a heroic instance and no more isn't the right kind of grinding.

My whole point about gear, legendaries in particular, even more-so in a RPG is that it should take dedication... it should take some effort... skill... and yea, maybe fighting a hard ass boss. Afterall, what the fuck is the point of it being "legendary" is everyone can obtain it, as long as you play (time-wise) long enough. People who expect that would literally never make it in the grandfather of all MMOs to come, UO. People literally have become expectant of videos games to where "hey I bought the game, I deserve the exact same reward anyone else can get".

[Normie]

gear that shares the same model as all difficulties - thats only makes it marginally better

Pretty sure the model has absolutely no effect on DPS/heals/mitigation. You would notice something more than "marginal" if your fire mage was geared 502 in H ToT.

[Deleted]

Not to sound rude but why is World of Warcraft an exception to this mind-set, but not traditionally difficult games? You can have an infamously hard game (Dark souls, Demon souls), yet still be extremely successful and stay afloat financially. You honestly cannot beat the game without trying, and putting forth a lot of effort in one way or another. I'm trying to grasp what makes paying money = means you can get the content.

its simply an issue of amount, what other game have you spent this much time and money on ?

[Normie]

My whole point about gear, legendaries in particular, even more-so in a RPG is that it should take dedication... it should take some effort... skill... and yea, maybe fighting a hard ass boss. Afterall, what the fuck is the point of it being "legendary" is everyone can obtain it, as long as you play (time-wise) long enough. People who expect that would literally never make it in the grandfather of all MMOs to come, UO. People literally have become expectant of videos games to where "hey I bought the game, I deserve the exact same reward anyone else can get".

The challenge quest is decidedly nontrivial in LFR gear, especially for some DPS.

Showing up and looting items from bosses for weeks and weeks on end, that isn't hard, that's just showing up. I'm not any more impressed by someone who farmed normal or heroic for 12 weeks than someone who farmed LFR for 12 weeks.

[Dormie]

The challenge quest is decidedly nontrivial in LFR gear, especially for some DPS.

Showing up and looting items from bosses for weeks and weeks on end, that isn't hard, that's just showing up. I'm not any more impressed by someone who farmed normal or heroic for 12 weeks than someone who farmed LFR for 12 weeks.

Wow lol. Exactly how low are our standards? You may not be 'impressed' but you can't deny how much more effort it takes. In normal/heroic you strategically approach each fight with other people. In LFR, nothing can be said, it's just a big follow the leader and dodge bad stuff. Not to mention you actually are showing that you are dedicated to helping your teammates by showing up at raid times.

[DrSteveBrule]

Pretty sure the model has absolutely no effect on DPS/heals/mitigation. You would notice something more than "marginal" if your fire mage was geared 502 in H ToT.

Ilvl is a means to an end. Being able to clear shit faster outside of raids is only a bonus, a marginal one at that since there isn't much use for it, especially now adays since gear is being scaled down left and right.

In Vanilla raid gear made you stronger in PvP so that was sweet.
But PvP gear is (and if not, will be tuned) to be better AND easier to get.

You're going to have to do better to entice players than recolored gear and Ilvl upgrades (which are also irrelevant the next tier).

[Robert3620]

Horrible example.

What >I< think needs to be changed with LFR (I know it's not going away) is:

I'm probably going to be considered one of those elitist assholes, and while I'm not trying to say LFR needs to be removed or anything like that... my problem is that blizzard (had to?) caved to the playerbase that apparently feels the need to simply log on, collect loot since they pay the same as everyone else and log off. NO-ONE can actually think you should be able to have half/more than half of a raid afk/auto-shot (literally happens almost anytime you would ever go into LFR) and still be able to down something?

I mean, I'm totally fine (and understanding) of people who have real-life issues that can't do 3-5 nights during progression and then only 1-2 nights during farm but LFR in it's current form (I suppose, by design ultimately) is an abomination of raiding. If you want to come to an argument of "bads" (note: not always casuals) why exactly is it "frowned" upon by the community to expect people to "get better"? I understand they pay for the game and all, I really do. I understand it's a business, I really do. I understand a businesses main job is to earn a profit, I really do but I honestly place this blame on Blizzard. It would be easy as hell for them to implement (maybe every 10 levels or so) a phased quest/raid that literally shows someone how to raid/play. Something (as stupid as it sounds) like a mock boss fight that has mechanics (particularly ground effects) to where you're shown you may have to actually move every so often. Something where after 1-3 seconds of standing in something that is almost always blatantly obvious under you, it would "pause" the encounter and say "Now, young soldier, if you stood in this, you will die". Like I said, it sounds extremely dumb but apparently it's needed.

Now, my ultimate (and you can't really say someone who is guilty of this shouldn't receive loot since they pay as in, "pay our monthly sub, receive phat loot as long as you can type /lfr") solution to "making" (I want to use this word loosely) people get better is by requiring something like what other games do, if you do 30k SUSTAINED DPS (been awhile since I played, don't know current numbers) you get very little loot (gold/flask/pot maybe) and then scaling up from there. So if you do at least 60k SUSTAINED DPS (of course adjustable per boss since fights are different of course) you'd be eligible for epics.

Any of the numbers above are 100% made-up since I don't know current numbers, but ultimately you wouldn't be excluding anyone in receiving a reward and ultimately the carrot would still be there to reach a certain threshold.

As you can tell my ultimate problem (since I know there is a TON of people who use LFR for a legitimate reason) with LFR is that there is ZERO reason for NOT going afk and tabbing back over every ~5 minutes to move to the next boss. I have no problem with people using LFR, but to have a chance at the most "epic" loot (relative to the difficulty of course) by being able to right-click and walk away for the entire fight is just... stupid.

I think that's a great idea. I am playing Star Trek Online now and for group content your reward is based on how well you performed with extra rewards going to the top three in larger group content. That could be a real way to help get people to want to improve and reward those that do better then others.

[Normie]

Wow lol. Exactly how low are our standards?

How low?

I don't consider doing something you already know how to do over and over again on a schedule any kind of accomplishment beyond, let's say, "patient."

Once you've beat the boss once, that's pretty much it. The first kill is noteworthy. Practice and better gear very quickly nerfs more kills into a rote experience.

So, that's correct, I don't care what you're farming, you're just farming.

[Dreknar20]

You're going to have to do better to entice players than recolored gear and Ilvl upgrades (which are also irrelevant the next tier).

Likewise, me biggest beef is that the carrot between the modes is very lacking

[Normie]

Ilvl is a means to an end. Being able to clear shit faster outside of raids is only a bonus, a marginal one at that since there isn't much use for it, especially now adays since gear is being scaled down left and right.

In Vanilla raid gear made you stronger in PvP so that was sweet.
But PvP gear is (and if not, will be tuned) to be better AND easier to get.

You're going to have to do better to entice players than recolored gear and Ilvl upgrades (which are also irrelevant the next tier).

To entice players to what?

I don't think there is anything anyone anywhere can do to induce more than a handful of players to take up raiding the current normal modes. They are too hard, they require too much experience and optimization, et cetera.

Everyone who wants to raid normal and heroic is already raiding normal and heroic. You can't force more people in there (they'll quit) and you can't bribe more people in there (they'll just ignore you). However many of you are in there now, that's the most of you there will ever be.

[Vynestra]

Why do they?

If you are a terrible player who has no chance to ever get into a raiding guild or pug normal modes, why do you expect to see raid content? Thats the reason LFR was implemented but WHY do terribads demand content just for them? LFR was made to see content, but why did Blizzard do so?

I just don't understand how hard can it be to read up on your class for 1 hour, ask a better player for tips and then improve yourself to get into raiding...


I think WoW is going down the toilet if something isn't done soon to stop catering to the majority. Dont get me wrong, im fine with catering to casuals, but not like this. Not this way with giving welfare "special" content just for them rather than incentive to improve your gaming skills.

I've been there, clueless. I learned, asked better players. I've been high rated in PvP and raided top PvE content but we ALL started on the bottom some time. Why cant those who run LFR do the same?

They don't really demand to see it. It's that blizzard spends so much money to develop these raids that count for a LOT of content in a big content patch that wants to let everyone have a chance at seeing the content, even if you can't be invested into making a set raid schedule every week. They want people to see their content, and they don't want to punish casuals for being casuals and not letting them see the content they've dumped thousands upon thousands of dollars into. LFR is purely a way to maintain casual subs, by letting them see content they never would have before.

There isn't a VERY high demand for casuals to see it, in fact it's a very vocal minority, just like it's a vocal minority that hates on LFR.

[Achtalon]

Wow lol. Exactly how low are our standards? You may not be 'impressed' but you can't deny how much more effort it takes. In normal/heroic you strategically approach each fight with other people. In LFR, nothing can be said, it's just a big follow the leader and dodge bad stuff. Not to mention you actually are showing that you are dedicated to helping your teammates by showing up at raid times.

He's talking about being impressed with their cloak, I think.

Actually, nvm, but as to that, heroic feels pretty easy when you're farming it.

[Dreknar20]

I don't think there is anything anyone anywhere can do to induce more than a handful of players to take up raiding the current normal modes. They are too hard, they require too much experience and optimization, et cetera.

yeah you can, throw in enough rewards that people desire. If the rewards are good and compelling enough they people will move up.

And normal is too hard? lolololol

[alturic]

The challenge quest is decidedly nontrivial in LFR gear, especially for some DPS.

Showing up and looting items from bosses for weeks and weeks on end, that isn't hard, that's just showing up. I'm not any more impressed by someone who farmed normal or heroic for 12 weeks than someone who farmed LFR for 12 weeks.

That's due to your skill level not seeing the pretty massive difference in skill required to down an LFR boss compared to a heroic boss.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah you can, throw in enough rewards that people desire. If the rewards are good and compelling enough they people will move up.

And normal is too hard? lolololol

He is a player that clearly came from the current generation of gamers. They expect to log on, have the same gear as even the most advanced players, and log off. He doesn't feel that getting better is needed in this game, or any game for that matter. He feels as though there is ZERO reason to try to be better. It's too time-consuming to take 10 minutes, plug some numbers into a website, copy/paste the data to an addon and click "Reforge". Quite frankly though, Blizzard is facilitating that mindset. Take Call of Duty for example, you log on, kill some people, level up eventually, and have access to the same things as other people. The ONLY distinguishable (see: skill level) difference between you the millions of other max level players is your KD ratio.