Outrage over "Don't be that girl" Posters in Edmonton.

[DisposableHero]

if every question you ask would be answered with a yes, yep, i know it´s hard to tell, and if you´re equally drunk and she said yes, i´d say both are equally guilty and they somehow managed to rape each other because both were in now way conscious enough...

Is this judgement call worthy of being the standard by which we measure guilt for a crime that carries long prison sentences and such a social stigma that even the accusation can be ruinous?

and i don´t consider it wrong to edjucate your child on how to react to anything she/he doesn´t want
but i do consider it wrong to bring up the imagination that every man is a sexhungry beast

We are in agreement here, I'm asking this question of someone who thinks otherwise because I don't understand their reasoning.

[Velaniz]

i´d say both are equally guilty and they somehow managed to rape each other because both were in now way conscious enough..

What? Is it possible for two people to simultaneously rape each other? They both want to fuck the other, but they don't want to be fucked back, therefore they're both guilty of rape? I don't think that's logical at all.

[Snorlaxi]

way to go talking about going in circles and than doing the exact same again

if you act like a skank and drink yourself into a stupor, you´re responsible for that (acting like a skank and being drunk as fuck), not for the actions taken against your will

You are also responsable for what you say and/or do. If you agreed to someone having sex with you, then you are responsable for that. Stop trying to say they are only responsable for what is convenient for your argument. If they are responsable for their actions, then they are responsable for their actions. If they aren't, then they aren't.

Make up your mind.

I read and i will say it again:
The girl said yes. That's true. But the problem is, that the girl was not unable to answer rational. So the girls "Yes" is meaningless. She is not able to speak for her self. If somebody takes advantage of that situation, for example he thinks, drunken girls are easier to get, then he takes advantage of the girls situation, where she can not give him a proper answer. So he is abusing the current situation of the girl to satisfy is own lust. Nothing less then disgusting!


It may be a bad decision. Right. But the decision to take advantage of the situation of somebody else's situation is far more worse!

Is it so difficult for guys to stay away from drunken girls? Come on! If guys demand more discipline from the girls, then they should show more discipline as well.

First of all, why are you saying "Is it so difficult for guys to" as in "all guys do that"? This is so wrong.

Anyway, moving on... The girl said yes because she got herself drunk, it was a bad decision on her part, you seem to agree on that. A guy who takes advantage of the situation and have sex with that girl is an asshole, but he is not a criminal.

Again, he did not drug her, he did not trick her, he asked her if she wanted to have sex with him while she was suffering from consequences of her own mistake [mistake beeing drinking too much, consequence beeing drunk]. And her, as consequence of her own mistake, did yet another mistake: she said yes. He took advantage of a series of dumb mistakes and bad decisions some irresponsible person made, one those mistakes beeing the act of willingly giving him consent to do what he wanted to.

So, with permission from a dumb and irresponsible person who made a series of mistakes, he proceeded to be an asshole. He is guilty of beeing a jerk, but the fact that she gave him consent from her own will, as a consequence of choices she made from her own will, makes him not guilty of beeing a rapist.

Why can't you guys see that an adult person is responsable for her acts? We are not talking about kids here. If an adult person decides to get drunk, she is responsable for that. If she decides to say yes because she is drunk, she is still responsable for that, she is not adsolved of any responsability all of the sudden because you guys want them to be happy. This is not how it works. You action, your mistake, your answer, your responsability.

[Mayhem]

Is this judgement call worthy of being the standard by which we measure guilt for a crime that carries long prison sentences and such a social stigma that even the accusation can be ruinous?

it really boils down to who took action

[gamingmuscle]

So why is this wrong but advising men not to rape as if they are all ravening beasts who could bust into rape mode at any moment ok?

K, I may have misread your take on this. If she is drunk the point of impaired judgement and you ask, and she says yes, is that taking advantage in your book?

Do you consider the same might be true of men's response to a flirty and inviting and beautiful young woman? Or do you consider their rational mind stronger than that?

Cause the AD isn't calling all men ravenous beasts. Only those that want it to, see that...which is stupid. Anti drunk driving adds aren't calling me a drunk driver. They are re-affirming something I already know, driving drunk is bad. Rape is bad.

Quite honestly the message of both posters is fine, Rape is bad and Regret!=Rape. The fact the the 2nd one was done mocking the first one taints its message.

[Itisamuh]

You are also responsable for what you say and/or do. If you agreed to someone having sex with you, then you are responsable for that. Stop trying to say they are only responsable for what is convenient for your argument. If they are responsable for their actions, then they are responsable for their actions. If they aren't, then they aren't.

Make up your mind.


First of all, why are you saying "Is it so difficult for guys to" as in "all guys do that"? This is so wrong.

Anyway, moving on... The girl said yes because she got herself drunk, it was a bad decision on her part, you seem to agree on that. A guy who takes advantage of the situation and have sex with that girl is an asshole, but he is not a criminal.

Again, he did not drug her, he did not trick her, he asked her if she wanted to have sex with him while she was suffering from consequences of her own mistake [mistake beeing drinking too much, consequence beeing drunk]. And her, as consequence of her own mistake, did yet another mistake: she said yes. He took advantage of a series of dumb mistakes and bad decisions some irresponsible person made, one those mistakes beeing the act of willingly giving him consent to do what he wanted to.

So, with permission from a dumb and irresponsible person who made a series of mistakes, he proceeded to be an asshole. He is guilty of beeing a jerk, but the fact that she gave him consent from her own will, as a consequence of choices she made from her own will, makes him not guilty of beeing a rapist.

Why can't you guys see that an adult person is responsable for her acts? We are not talking about kids here. If an adult person decides to get drunk, she is responsable for that. If she decides to say yes because she is drunk, she is still responsable for that, she is not adsolved of any responsability all of the sudden because you guys want them to be happy. This is not how it works. You action, your mistake, your answer, your responsability.

Indeed. But obviously it's only true for men. Women can't be held accountable for their actions for some reason.

[Mayhem]

You are also responsable for what you say and/or do. If you agreed to someone having sex with you, then you are responsable for that. Stop trying to say they are only responsable for what is convenient for your argument. If they are responsable for their actions, then they are responsable for their actions. If they aren't, then they aren't.

Make up your mind.

i never said that, we do agree, i don´t know why you quoted me, i even wrote it in the quote... actions against your will... that certainly aren´t actions you can be responsible for, don´t you think?

[Snorlaxi]

i never said that, we do agree, i don´t know why you quoted me, i even wrote it in the quote... actions against your will... that certainly aren´t actions you can be responsible for, don´t you think?

I was referring to when you said they can't be responsable for saying yes. My bad for not making this clear.

[gamingmuscle]

If it's blaming, then it is, in principle, the exact same sort of blaming someone who leaves his house unlocked at night and then gets robbed gets, the same kind someone who walks through a thug street in the middle of the night waving thousand-dollar bills in everyone's faces gets. Society is quick to chastise these kinds of victims, yet the "rape culture" myth has made it so doing the same for rape victims is the ultimate taboo.

Call it what you will. I know what I'd teach my daughters.

All blaming and their all stupid ways of giving advice. And it teaches the wrong message. That your actions cause bad people to do bad things to you.

The lesson should be. There are bad people and they will do bad things regardless of your actions. There are things you can do to protect yourself.

[Deleted]

"1 more example that #RapeCulture is flourishing in #YEG.Women report rape bc its a crime,not a revenge plot #rapemyth pic.twitter.com/ObAGHEh6lH "

how the fuck does she know its not a revenge plot sometimes ? fuck sake some child got her dad sent to prison with claims of sexual abuse, turns oput she was just bullshitting and was unhappy with him for some reason, too far into the lie to pull out.

[Mayhem]

Indeed. But obviously it's only true for men. Women can't be held accountable for their actions for some reason.

it´s as if you and voodo only read what you want to read, no one´s saying that women aren´t responsible for their actions

what we´re saying is, the victim can´t be responsible for actions taken against its will

it´s as if getting drunk and saying yes equals one action

no, they are two actions, one getting drunk, second saying yes

and if you´re knowingly taking advantage of another persons condition you are guilty

let´s look at it like this:
if one uses roofies to make one submissive, and then taking advantage of ones condition
the person is guilty of two things
drugging someone
raping

see? two different actions

now, you find someone who got all drunk by himself, does this mean rape is out of question for some magical reason?

[starlord]

i thought the patriarchy was about keeping the girls down and extoll the superiority of men, exactly how that translates into men are bad i dont get.

second and more importantly, children, 11%, female perpetrator, and sexual Abuse.
given the important details the following can be distilled: Children abused, Raped - Its called statutory rape, I.E it is Rape.
11% with a female perpetrator, and that's presumably soft but still a very HUGE amount of FEMALE RAPISTS.

"1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape)."
without even starting in on whether or not that is actually true, 84% of your stats, that You linked are not about rape.

well first off i didnt post that so im not sure where you're getting it. moving on, patriarchy harms men as well. secondly, that 11% is vs 88% males and isnt even related to the discussion.

You said that sexual assault conducted by women doesn't count, because we are discussing rape. Now you link wikipedia that contains this quote:

Which completely invalidates your original statement.

Basically, Patriarchy created the myth that females are natural nurtures. This myth hinders the prosecution of female sexual abuse of minors and it also hinders child custody cases. This myth is the other side of the token that says that males are not good parents because they are driven by aggression and power which is also perpetuated by Patriarchy.

Now the Feminist thing to do would be to acknowledge that our society has a very sexist way of dealing with sexual assault and child custody, because of this myth. You refuse to do that and instead you perpetuate the myth and patriarchy. So you are not a real Feminist?

this is called moving the goalposts because the facts dont support you. its well known that the terms are varied.
so really you have no idea what you're talking about. but if you want to discuss sexual crimes as a whole, do so instead of bringing them up in a discussion about rape. and as a whole, the perpetrators are still overwhelmingly male, as your own (one) statistic shows.

what?? so your interpretation of "drunk women are entirely responsible for their actions" is "when a woman gets raped, it´s entirely her action"

in your interpretation you neglect the role of anyone else involved except the drunk woman while there´s obviously someone else involved, if not it would be a pretty weird form of masturbation (officer, i was raped, by myself!)...

i´ll tell you what the poster is basically saying "women are responsible for their actions even when drunk" just like men are responsible for their actions even when drunk, that´s why there´s written beneath "double standard"

or are you saying "legal consent is irrelevant and if you are taken advantage of it´s your fault" is ok if it applys to men? because if you think that is ok, than your interpretation becomes somewhat clear

because with the line "double standard" that would be the message of the poster

"we the MRA approve of taking advantage of drunk men, why doesn´t it happen to women aswell?"
double standard

ridiculous, don´t you think?

of course it goes both ways, thats how consent works. its not a double standard at all.
being in a mentally impaired state means a person cannot legally consent to sex, plain and simple. a lot of guys dont seem to understand this, as evidenced in this very thread.
MRA's completely ignoring this just to shame victims is really ridiculous.

[Deleted]

Forced, or non-consensual molestation.

That's silly, a lot isn't reported publicly because of shaming, blame, fear of not being taken seriously, etc.

Almost 90% of male rape victims have not reported publicly because of shaming blame and fear.

If you think it's a female only thing, please take your feminist agenda and leave.

[Mayhem]

What? Is it possible for two people to simultaneously rape each other? They both want to fuck the other, but they don't want to be fucked back, therefore they're both guilty of rape? I don't think that's logical at all.

it really was for the sake of argument, i doubt if both are not conscious enough to make clear decisions anymore sex is in 99% of the table *g* and in 1% on the table, or the floor, or wherever

[Deleted]

if she´s asking? no why would i?

if i´m asking, and she´s unable to answer, yep i´d consider it taking advantage

The only time I have ever even seen this "taking advantage" of women in person is when they themselves are under the influence.

If the woman who is very drunk and kinda let's them do their thing without saying no is not responsible for their actions, is the dude who has litttle sense of himself also not responsible?

And here is the better question. I have woken up with some rather ugly beast of a woman spooning me. Quite often. Why does the poster assume MEN are the only things capable of horrific sexual assault?

[Mayhem]

of course it goes both ways, thats how consent works. its not a double standard at all.
being in a mentally impaired state means a person cannot legally consent to sex, plain and simple. a lot of guys dont seem to understand this, as evidenced in this very thread.

what i do find funny is that we agree on this

but i don´t understand how you can take the mra posters offensive while agreeing with the feminism poster

edit:
oh boy, time flies, checking in with you tomorrow, time to hang out with some friends, have a nice weekend

[Deleted]

what i do find funny is that we agree on this

but i don´t understand how you can take the mra posters offensive while agreeing with the feminism poster

Modern feminism is simply anti-man.

[Snorlaxi]

it´s as if you and voodo only read what you want to read, no one´s saying that women aren´t responsible for their actions

what we´re saying is, the victim can´t be responsible for actions taken against its will

it´s as if getting drunk and saying yes equals one action

no, they are two actions, one getting drunk, second saying yes

and if you´re knowingly taking advantage of another persons condition you are guilty

let´s look at it like this:
if one uses roofies to make one submissive, and then taking advantage of ones condition
the person is guilty of two things
drugging someone
raping

see? two different actions

now, you find someone who got all drunk by himself, does this mean rape is out of question for some magical reason?

You are not guilty of rape if she consented. If she said yes, it is not "against her will" as you say. Getting drunk and saying yes are two actions, true, as I said before, two mistakes, and a person is responsable for her mistakes.

That person in your example is guilty of those two things indeed. But in the case we are discussing, where she druged herself, the guy is not guilty of "drugging someone", and, as she said "yes" to a direct question such as "do you want to have sex with me?", he is also not guilty of "raping". He did not induce her to say yes as in your example.

[Austilias]

Modern feminism is simply anti-man.

Don't try and convince any Draenei-avatared misogynists of that.

Infracted: Please don't make personal jabs at other posters.

[Velaniz]

All blaming and their all stupid ways of giving advice. And it teaches the wrong message. That your actions cause bad people to do bad things to you.

The lesson should be. There are bad people and they will do bad things regardless of your actions. There are things you can do to protect yourself.

You're interpreting it wrong then. Your actions make it more likely that bad people will do bad things to you. Not a direct reagent, but a catalyst. There are things you can do to protect yourself.