Blizz Refusal to Buff Arms Single Target Under Questioning

[Mormolyce]

"This spec does superior single target damage" is not an acceptable niche, that simply makes it the only spec anyone will play. Look at Assassination Rogues. DPS specs are all balanced around doing the same single target DPS (doesn't always work in practice of course, WoW is a complex game).

[Beefkow]

Arms damage is fine where is it, its viable in pvp and pve.

If you disagree, please care to enlighten me.

[cFortyfive]

Upper echelon Arms > Fury on a majority of PvE fights atm (believe it of not).

No sorry don't believe it.
I don't really understand anyways what you are getting at. Of course it is easy to rank because simply nobody fucking plays arms. Out of curiosity I actually looked around and really there is a ranked 40k arms parse on horridon 10 hc...no shit this isn't going to be hard to beat but still I don't really see the point. Arms stays a mediocre to weak spec and I don't really see anything proving the opposite.

[Korgoth]

Arms damage is fine where is it, its viable in pvp and pve.

If you disagree, please care to enlighten me.

Maybe if by fine you mean so low the spec is useless in all aspects of the game, then sure. But hey only every statistic and actual high end pvp and pve warrior's experience backs this up.

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For the non trolls.

Arms does need a massive single target damage increase. Mediocre damage every 170/180s, mediocre defenses and low CC is not a competitive package in PVP. And PVE is all about the numbers, and we can easily see the numbers for Arms are too fucking low.
Overpower damage DOUBLED.
Mortal Strike/CSmash/Slam damage increased by 10%.
Bladestorm trainable at 180% damage.
Conc Blow replaces it in the tree, 6s/45s
Avatar duration and CD cut by 50%, snare immunity added back in.


But it doesnt matter, because clearly GC and Holinka like Arms being on the shit pile. Especially in PVE, WHERE IT IS JUST A FUCKING NUMBER. And the PvP excuse for Arms being bad in PVE has been pure bullshit since they gutted C Smash in PvP only.

[Uthan]

Arms really is in a sad state atm. I've been sticking to it zealosly ever since Ulduar, and this is the first tier I've actually seriously tried fury again, after feeling I was starting to lag behind too much. It's kind of silly when you can easily rank top 10 on world of logs and still be the bottom dps in the raid. Fury just obliterates Arms in every possible way atm, even though I'm still failing quite badly with managing my RB stacks every now and then. Not sure I even feel like continuing raiding if I have to stick to Fury next tier as well. And for those saying play what you feel like, I'm in a heroic raiding guild, 6/13 atm, so that extra damage really is required :<


(http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;Thalas/uthan/ for those interested)

[senturion]

I've always believed that arms should be PVP focused and PVE buffs should be done for fury.

Why do we need two half baked specs? Fury deserves to be ahead of arms in PVE the same amount that arms surpass fury in PVP.

[Darkfriend]

I just want to highlight this one in particular. In a pvp setting, haste is next to useless. Mastery really isn't any better, its among if not the worst mastery in the game. Mastery procs for 3k on people? Crazy damage man...

Crit is the only stat we even want so we scale terribly.

My suggestion for stat scaling would be to buff mastery to 80% weapon damage and to make haste make deep wounds tick faster (correct me if it already does but I'm under the impression it doesn't).

Haste doesn't impact any melee dots/diseases.

[Beefkow]

Why do we need two half baked specs? Fury deserves to be ahead of arms in PVE the same amount that arms surpass fury in PVP.

Yeah, apparently mages are aloud to have 3 viable specs for both pve and pvp and same with hunters and rogues but blizzard can't balance 2 specs?

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(http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...;Thalas/uthan/ for those interested)

After looking at those charts, arms doesn't look that bad in fact.. i wish people could understand the word "viable".

And to add to my recent troll post (according to some people), i literately toke down 3 guys in one sick bladestorm (after the buff of course) with 100k crits cleaving with sweeping strikes, so yes arms warrior damage is viable.

[Uthan]

Yeah, apparently mages are aloud to have 3 viable specs for both pve and pvp and same with hunters and rogues but blizzard can't balance 2 specs?

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After looking at those charts, arms doesn't look that bad in fact.. i wish people could understand the word "viable".

And to add to my recent troll post (according to some people), i literately toke down 3 guys in one sick bladestorm (after the buff of course) with 100k crits cleaving with sweeping strikes, so yes arms warrior damage is viable.

Well, to me viable would be performing at a level where I can play it in a heroic setting without lagging behind the rest of the raid. That's not possible at the moment.(And not due to lack of skill.)

[Deleted]

After looking at those charts, arms doesn't look that bad in fact.. i wish people could understand the word "viable".

And to add to my recent troll post (according to some people), i literately toke down 3 guys in one sick bladestorm (after the buff of course) with 100k crits cleaving with sweeping strikes, so yes arms warrior damage is viable.

Did you look at the link?
Majority is Looking for raid logs....
The ones who arent are old tier done couple weeks ago when heavily outgearing it.

Going into looking for raid, in a spec nobody really plays and ranks does not equal spec viability.
arms is shit in both pve and pvp.

For all the actual warriors who say arms shouldn't be viable in pve.
Why the fuck not, thats not true FOR ANY OTHER CLASS now...

Edit. For clairty i was responding to Eleastia, thought they were the same link :x

[Crovyn]

Arms damage is fine where is it, its viable in pvp and pve.

If you disagree, please care to enlighten me.

I think it's pretty obvious that Arms is far from fine:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...11100000000000

25 Hero DEAD LAST.
10 Hero: last
25 normal: 2nd to LAST
10 normal: 3rd to LAST

"Fine" really looks slightly different imo.

This is not some theoretical bs but actual raid data.

[Uthan]

Did you look at the link ?
Majority is Looking for raid logs....
The ones who arent are old tier done couple weeks ago when heavily outgearing it.

Going into looking for raid, in a spec nobody really plays and ranks does not equal spec viability.
arms is shit in both pve and pvp.

For all the actual warriors who say arms shouldn't be viable in pve.
Why the fuck not, thats not true FOR ANY OTHER CLASS now...

Not sure where you were looking, but it's all Throne of thunder 10 man normal and heroic in there (still really bad numbers compared to what it should be imo) :>

[Deleted]

Not sure where you were looking, but it's all Throne of thunder 10 man normal and heroic in there (still really bad numbers compared to what it should be imo) :>

Thats what happens when you reply to one person, qoute someone else and you had also posted links

Was responding to this

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...3%BCberduckie/ Many of these rankings are above the damage of #1 ranked Fury warriors.

[maxalyss]

Regardless of anyones argument, we have been simming at the bottom for the whole expansion. Can we get a bone? In Ds my friend talked me into going Arms and I loved it...I don't want to go Fury because it is nearly as bad in the sims. Also, why does Smf even exist? 2 one handers doesn't seem too warriorish.

[Deleted]

Arms is alittle lackluster at the moment, but I am going to stick with it as I enjoy playing it too much.

[Millie]

I've always believed that arms should be PVP focused and PVE buffs should be done for fury.

Why do we need two half baked specs? Fury deserves to be ahead of arms in PVE the same amount that arms surpass fury in PVP.

Why does a spec "deserve" a single place? What makes these deserve these roles? History?

Give me a break.

[mysticx]

Arms is alittle lackluster at the moment, but I am going to stick with it as I enjoy playing it too much.

I'm sticking with Arms-spec too, i have the luxury of being a LFR-hero (Where simply trying do DPS properly puts me in the top 50% of DPS done anyway :P ), i tried fury of course, but it doesn't "flow" as well for me as arms does (And TG-fury looks plain silly too, lesser concern but still...), and the buffs to arms look good too, but i'm playing at the level where my preference is still the most important factor in spec choice so i'll do fine.

[Deleted]

I think it's pretty obvious that Arms is far from fine:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...11100000000000

25 Hero DEAD LAST.
10 Hero: last
25 normal: 2nd to LAST
10 normal: 3rd to LAST

"Fine" really looks slightly different imo.

This is not some theoretical bs but actual raid data.

Actual raid data?! Who is playing arms right now to create these logs?

[Uthan]

Actual raid data?! Who is playing arms right now to create these logs?

A lot of stubborn people (me included until about 2 weeks ago) who love Arms and much prefer it over Fury.

I think a somewhat more telling setting on raidbots is to set it to max dps as well. It confirms the same thing. Check out the various fights. It doesn't matter what difficulty or fight you pick, arms is still last or close to last all the way through, with quite a margin in some cases. There are people out there in full hc gear who do play Arms every once in a while on farm bosses (They're usually the ones around the top in WoL) and even then Arms is way behind. It doesn't matter what parameters you go by, Arms IS in a really bad place.

[Warriorsarri]

Any data based on real world loggs are scewed in Furys favor, due to the fact that most high end warriors play Fury. If we just look at the stats on Raidbots, or WoL, we'll see that Fury is about 30-40% ahead of Arms, but that dosn't mean that Fury is 30-40% better then Arms.

Arms at the moment is behind Fury, there is no one who would argue otherwise, but the difference between them is far lower then 30-40%. My Guess is that if most high end warriors would go and parse a week or two as Arms, we would see it be around 5-15% behind Fury on most fights. It's still worse, but it's not by such a big margin.