I don't understand why 4 raid modes are necessary.

[Faust55]

To be honest, one of the most lazy and detrimental aspects of the current game is the constant duplication of content which is continuing with the introduction of flex mode. To couple that Blizzard invalidates most of the old content it produces with catch-up mechanics, although this has been toned back to some degree with the removal of mid-expansion 5 mans. What I don't understand is why the old model, a continuous spectrum of unique content, wasn't working. To better illustrate my idea, lets look at the game back towards 2006. Going from a player who has the least amount of time and dedication to play to the most, it might look like this:

1. If you really lack a lot of time to play, leveling up through the large and expansive world is basically your end-game. It takes at least 10 days played or 240 hours to reach level cap for the average player, so you're looking at almost 2/3 of a year for a person who plays an hour/night. The leveling back then was challenging so it could reasonably be end-game for some people, but also quite interesting for anyone familiar with warcraft lore and it's characters. The lack of flying mounts as well as non-linear quest design actually made you want to explore the entire world. Also meeting friends and enemies was much more common given the length of time to took to level, which makes for a much more immerse environment. All this factors serve to show why leveling was actually a captivating source of play for people with a heavy work schedule and not just some obstacle like it is today.

2. Ok,so now we have people who have the time to make it to level cap, but maybe still have other commitments, so they can't make weekly scheduled raids or that sort of things. So what do they do with 2-3 random hours. Well if they aren't quite the social type, they can farm materials such as felcloth, which could be crafted into fairly decent upgrades. Some items like Robe of Winter Night could easily be better than molten core gear but with a significant time investment farming. Most of the crafted gear is flat out terrible today and the materials often come out of raids anyway. This also applies for farming consumables. Second there is PvP. Great BGs like Alterac Valley used to be an interesting mix of PvP and PvE. They offered something for everybody and the epics that the BG factions provided at exalted were extremely good. Great gear that anyone with a few spare hours here for there could effectively get with enough time invested.

2b. I made this a whole separate section to highlight how great the old 5 mans were. Blackrock Depths is not even a max level dungeon yet it is has more bosses than ToT LFR, is arguable more lore rich, and could potentially take longer depending on your group. Honestly nobody should be upset if this is there end-game. The great size and variety of endgame dungeons in vanilla can't really be understated and although they often dropped bad or useless items, there were occasional items like Felstriker and Ironfoe that were often superior to most raid loot in the game, something that was warranted by the number of runs people could spend farming this item. Getting a perfect pre-raid set took a lot of time and effort. I don't really see how running LFR over and over again is really any different from running the wide variety of vanilla dungeons for some great items. The only real difference is that they often aren't purple.

3. Ok now lets say you have some time to raid, but only really on the weekends with some friends, nothing too serious. You can spend a lot your time doing 1-2b, but also you have 20-mans, ZG and AQ20. These instances provide yet another level of content as well as access to important reputations and enchants that allow you to improve your character. You can also get really rare and epic mounts, however with a very low drop rate. This is the easy mode raiding; the flex raiding that accommodates guilds who don't have the greatest of players or enough to make a 40 man.

4. And finally for the 4th tier of content we have full 40 man raids. See how this is only the last tier of massively multiplayer content and not the sole reason to play the game? Even in this "final" tier we still have a continuous progression in difficulty. The smooth (or sometimes not so smooth depending on how many times you wiped on Razorgore) transition from Molten Core, to BWL, to AQ40 to Naxx, provides a wide, wide range of content for players of most abilities and time commitments. The range of difficulty from Naxx to MC is literally huge and was proof that WoW provided something for literally everybody.

So again I have to ask "Why do we need to duplicate content 4 times?" Why instead can't we just create unique content for everyone that was done 7 years ago. It was the time of the game's biggest growth, and it wasn't just because it was new. It was because there was something for everyone and literally no matter how far you got in the game, there was always more to do. Today we have even the most casual of players clearing all of the unique content in the game in a matter of days. No wonder people are getting burned out and unsubbing. No wonder long standing guilds are collapsing. The common retort to this is that designing content for the very highest of endgame is a waste of developer time and money. First of all as I pointed out in my post, that high end content (i.e. Naxx) is only an extremely small amount of the overall content that players experience. Also, the content is still necessary to provide this continuous spectrum even if not many players and going to see it. This overall design goal is important and developers should recognize that. Thanks for reading.

[Sinndra]

first, i dont think many people had really guessed how big raiding would become over the years since release. when wow first came out there were longer dungeons to show what the game could offer. over the years its been streamlined based a lot on player wants and desires, so that today we have PvP (BG's and Arena's) and we have PvE (raids). dungeons dont offer rewards that make time spent worth it. people ran old dungeons like you said for that one weapon that was better then raid gear. thats their motivation. they didnt run those dungeons because they enjoyed the duration they spent in there.

second, you talk about leveling being end game for most players, and that "no flying mounts" increases player interaction. this is total bullshit. you meet players in the world because players have REASONS to be out there. Cata did not give us reason to go to the zones once we finished leveling. Pandaria offers many MANY more reasons to be out in other zones, which increases the chances of you bumping into another player greatly!

third, 4 difficulties is not duplicated content. you are not expected to run every single difficulty every single week. you are supposed to pick the level that best suits your playstyle and ability. LFR was a great concept but offers too large a stage for assholes and trolls to ruin others enjoyment in the game. Normals, while easy to many players, is actually difficult in that it does require perfect execution for success. very little room for error. and certainly no room to just carry friends. if you think Normals are easy then you are a heroic raider. many players are not heroic raiders and just want to have fun without the pressure of flawless rotations/perfect executions. and thanks to trolls and general assholes.. those players are not enjoying LFR as they should. Flexi raiding will allow those players to have their fun, without the detriment of trolls.

edit: i believe guilds are collapsing because of raid lockouts. its very hard for your main to go raid with friends in another guild. during Wrath, you could be in a high end progression guild, but still help friends that were learning how to raid. you could join their group and pretty much be the shining star and carry them. it was fun. it was a social experience. again Flexi raiding will allow those progression oriented raiders the option of helping their friends from other guilds. which will keep those players interested longer, which will in turn keep bigger guilds together because you have more people to hang out with on off nights.

[Deleted]

Well, many games have different difficulty settings, but i dont see people whine they are dublicating content when they do it

[Nobleshield]

Flex mode is needed because of the huge gap between LFR (too easy for most everyone) and normal mode (too hard for average guilds), which itself was brought about due to combining the 10 and 25 lockouts since that forced 10-man normal to be made harder to compensate. If Blizzard could correctly balance normal mode so that it wasn't way too challenging for average guilds, there wouldn't be the need for Flex.

[Deleted]

I think flex is very good, many social friendly raiding guilds have problem with normal mode. LFR is too easy and dont really feel like raiding, and normal is too hard because they are casual friendly guilds so they wont get much progress done at all.

Flex will let them feel like they actually raiding, together as a casual friendly guild, they dont have to sit players out because they can bring 12/14/16 players whatever. They can have a great experience and I think flex raiding might bring back ALOT of casual friendly guilds in the future.

It will also close the gap for them between LFR -> Normal, starting with flex they will be able to actually clear all bosses and get better gear which will help them to progress easier in normal if they want.

[Floopa]

The same reason there are 5 divisions of English football: if people are told they suck, they cry. In reality though, people only care about the premier league, the big boys league, the heroic modes.

[jetersky]

The short answer is so that there's something for everyone. Flex raiding will be amazing for alt runs and casuals who want a more "raid like" atmosphere than LFR, which lacks the coordination and comradery that you find in normals/heroics.

[Feel The Power]

Uggh, so sick of Blizz giving us options!!!

[Mad_Murdock]

To be honest, one of the most lazy and detrimental aspects of the current game is the constant duplication of content which is continuing with the introduction of flex mode.

Do you really not understand it or do you choose to not understand it ?

Flex raid is what some call a beer league, something we had in Wrath with 10 man raiding. It's a easier version of the current raid that the less than hardcore could do. LFR is just like Call of Duty or Battlefield, you log in, you que up you join a random battle. And that's great, but not ideal for a MMO. Not to mention, it cuts out the important part of it all, hanging out and playing with friends, family, people you like, that might be terrible at the game.

The game has change, the players have change and Blizzard is doing a pretty good job of keeping up.

[Deleted]

Yeah I don't get it either, what's next? A difficulty between LFR and flex for people that thing LFR is too easy but flex is too hard? Or one between flex and normal for those that think flex is too easy but normal is too hard? Or even one between normal and heroic, you know, for those that think normal is too easy but heroic is too hard...I mean I don't care about it I just don't get it.

[Finick]

I think 4 is a bit excessive... That being said though I'm hoping it's something that I can have fun in on my alts. I feel like it also actively discourages people from really trying to get better than they are. I understand people want to raid, but I feel like a lot of people I know just aren't willing to put in a fair amount of effort to really accomplish their goals in the game.

I really have a hard time believing that people just can't do normal modes. I get that many fights may be a roadblock for a lot of guilds, but I just don't understand how they can't overcome that obstacle. No boss in this game is unkillable. It's not like there's secret information Heroic raiders have over Normal mode raiders. Everyone is on an even playing field, the information is out there for anyone who wants it, and the ones who succeed are the ones who try the hardest and take advantage of the tools available to them.

Another big thing I see a lot of people bring up is that they want to play with their friends. I like that. I love raiding with people I enjoy playing with. However, if the people you're surrounding yourself with just aren't good enough, or aren't putting effort enough in to get any better than I just don't see why Blizzard should cater to that. If your group is struggling to just clear normals, in any tier, there's more fundamental problems happening within your raid group than with x ability doing too much damage.

This change will be fun for my alts, but I ultimately think it'll have a negative impact on the player skill of people looking to seriously get into raiding.

[Dreyen]

Honestly, i think flexraid is just there to replace normal modes as they got much harder, and with flexraids, you can easily grab your main and help friends or whatever..

[Sinndra]

I really have a hard time believing that people just can't do normal modes. I get that many fights may be a roadblock for a lot of guilds, but I just don't understand how they can't overcome that obstacle. No boss in this game is unkillable. It's not like there's secret information Heroic raiders have over Normal mode raiders. Everyone is on an even playing field, the information is out there for anyone who wants it, and the ones who succeed are the ones who try the hardest and take advantage of the tools available to them.

for some, its luck. many have bad luck acquiring gear. that gear holds them back from beating certain bosses. a linear raid makes this even worse. for others its knowledge. some dont know there is an easier way to handle a boss fight. and for others its desire. some just simply dont desire playing on the cutting edge. they are not bad, they just want to have fun with friends/family/whatever. they dont want to be chastised for mistakes. they dont want to have to point mistakes out to others. its pressure that ruins the social aspect of raiding for them.

[Abstieg]

I think the better question is why people care if others have something to do. If it doesn't impact you, why put up a fuss?

[Faust55]

I don't think people read the thread

[ablib]

I think flex raiding will be phased out in the future, because it will be under utilized.

[Adp]

I wish they would make 10-15 man dungeons again. That would be sweet.

[Nobleshield]

I really have a hard time believing that people just can't do normal modes. I get that many fights may be a roadblock for a lot of guilds, but I just don't understand how they can't overcome that obstacle. No boss in this game is unkillable. It's not like there's secret information Heroic raiders have over Normal mode raiders. Everyone is on an even playing field, the information is out there for anyone who wants it, and the ones who succeed are the ones who try the hardest and take advantage of the tools available to them.

In many cases it's because in a more casual-oriented 10-man team you can't pick and choose people, or you can't simply bench someone who isn't performing at 110%, or maybe you don't want to. For guilds like these, normals are incredibly difficult without big nerfs because everyone is trying their best, but their best isn't good enough. Maybe reaction times on a healer is a bit slow, or you have some DPS who are slightly underperforming, but they're good friendly members, everyone likes them, and nobody wants to say "Sorry Bob you can't raid with us anymore, your DPS isn't good enough" because Bob can only do 75k DPS trying his best, when sims say he should be doing around 100k, and that lack of DPS is causing a wipe. In Wrath this wasn't a big problem and in a 10-man raid you could often bring people who weren't really good at their class and still be able to clear it, but since the shared lockout you can't bring those people or they'll make you wipe. That's why we need another difficulty as long as Blizzard balances raids around the "elite" raiders and not the run of the mill average guild.

I'm hoping that eventually we don't have Flex as a 4th difficulty, but that Normal (and Heroic) get the Flex mechanic applied to them so they can scale, thus removing the idea of having to bench someone or pick 10 people out of the 12 online and tell two that they need to find something else to do because you don't need them.

[Buxton McGraff]

Easy way for them to produce less content.
Just do the same thing over and over on different difficulties.

[Faust55]

I wish they would make 10-15 man dungeons again. That would be sweet.

Somebody got it