[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion Pt. 2

[Kyuuseishu]

Also to answer your question from the shaman thread void, I was under the impression it wasn't target capped purely because it didn't state it, but I didn't use it enough to really notice anything.

[Pasture]

Because on a lot of fights it would be almost impossible to keep the mastery shields from "overhealing" as in they are going to fall off a lot more but as Kyuuseishu said it doesn affect Daybreak and HR (yet?).

I actually wish it would. I'd be happy for anything that pushes us more towards haste compared to mastery. The spam for mastery style is sapping all the fun out of Paladin for me. And if HR was target capped smart haste might actually be the better stat for that in terms of picking people up.

That said, unlikely to happen, or else HR and LoD would both be smart heals. Bit excessive as a AoE healing rotation.

[Deleted]

I actually wish it would. I'd be happy for anything that pushes us more towards haste compared to mastery. The spam for mastery style is sapping all the fun out of Paladin for me. And if HR was target capped smart haste might actually be the better stat for that in terms of picking people up.

That said, unlikely to happen, or else HR and LoD would both be smart heals. Bit excessive as a AoE healing rotation.

I agree with everything you said however Healing Rain has been changed because it double dips on every heal in the combat log so we are talking up to 100 lines of text every time it ticks (this is asuming lots of wild imps, jujus and stampede pets).

The only other abilities in the game (that I can think of anyways) that does the exact same is holy radiance. While holy radiance is not used as often as healing rain ticks we are probably the biggest offender for input lag after the recent changes and I would much rather have them change us completely than lag during progress.

[Dubalicious]

While holy radiance is not used as often as healing rain ticks we are probably the biggest offender for input lag after the recent changes

Hmm, interesting... I was thinking we we're towards the "lighter" end of the spectrum as far as input lag is concerned, but if radiance isn't changed, along with Daybreak, we very well move towards the "heavy" end of contributing to the lag. I still find it wild that insignificant pets, totems, minions, etc. aren't ignored for all these events, not that simply removing them would necessarily fix the input lag.

[Deleted]

Come to think of it we are worse than I originally thought, we have our Illuminated Healing AND Beacon so it actually tripple dips, a single HR cast could easily be 150 lines of combat text on Ra-den pull on live. They should have removed HR interaction with stampede pets and juju gnomes now as it was hinted by Lore in the thread that started these healing changes.

[nightfalls]

Come to think of it we are worse than I originally thought, we have our Illuminated Healing AND Beacon so it actually tripple dips, a single HR cast could easily be 150 lines of combat text on Ra-den pull on live. They should have removed HR interaction with stampede pets and juju gnomes now as it was hinted by Lore in the thread that started these healing changes.

1) Paladin pops Guardian of Ancient Kings,
2) Total lockdown on everyone's computer.

[Jackielope]

I really hope their GoAK redo won't cause even more problems with AOE healing. If it does, we might not even get brought to certain fights due to healing nuking the raid's performance.

Kinda wish we had a different mastery if the absorbs are causing problems with logs and all that.

[PosPosPos]

GoAK is extremely inefficient in terms of design and coding.

Instead of choosing to make the skill give a 100% boost to healing and splash 5% to surrounding targets, they chose to code it in such a way that each heal you cast generates multiple superfluous lines of log.

Take for example, currently GoAK works something like this:

Your Holy Radiance healed you 50000 holy.
Your Holy Radiance healed X 25000 holy.
Your Holy Radiance healed Y 25000 holy.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed you 50000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed X 25000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed Y 25000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed you 5000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed you 2500.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed you 2500.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed X 5000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed X 2500.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed X 2500.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed Y 5000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed Y 2500.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed Y 2500.

This is only on 3 targets as well.

Instead, it should work like this:

Your Holy Radiance healed you 100000 holy.
Your Holy Radiance healed X 50000 holy.
Your Holy Radiance healed Y 50000 holy.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed you 10000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed X 10000.
Guardian of the Ancient Kings healed Y 10000.

See the difference in logging?


Less log spam, equivalent functionality.

[Rathimis]

Pos did you go post that on the input lag thread?

[PosPosPos]

Pos did you go post that on the input lag thread?

Nope, I didn't, but you can do it on my behalf if you want to, it is just one spell out of many tbh, and it's a 5 min cd anyway.

[nightfalls]

GoAK should probably be reworked to just double all healing and last a little longer. The AoE proc'cing AoE does not seem needed at all.

HR/Daybreak changes could be nice also, at least Daybreak.

[cakin]

We have anymore insight on peoples experiences in 25 man. Last time I check people didn't get a good chance to check it out and haven't heard much since. From what I saw from Midwinter stream last night Euph had some extremely fluctuated numbers. Not sure if he was changing specs or not.

[paladative]

...Less log spam, equivalent functionality.

This might be a new idea to crash server like US_Stormrage

[mofobagins]

first ever post from me on these forums. I have been following this thread since in the begining and I have a couple of questions I am hoping to be answered. I dont not believe they have been asked before but i do appologize if they have.

1) How are holy pallies looking in 25man? I know shamans and druids are op right now, but are we far behind priests and monks too? I know 25 heroic hasnt been tested yet so we cant know the real damage of the nerfs yet, but im just curious to know what it is looking like.

2) From what people have posted, it looks like EF will be the way to go for 25man. Just want to double check this is true? If so, now that EF doesnt stack mastery, is it better to stack EFs on the raid or just make sure both tanks and yourself have 3hp EFs and then spam what you can on everyone else?

3) Overall, with the change to DP, change to SoI, lower mana cost of HS, and change to Sancity of Battle reducing the cd on HS, are we in a better spot for mana and regen then on live? I believe the current PTR build is a little farther ahead than live now but I just want to check.

Thank you.

[monikasun88]

I don't get how the changes to guardian make guardian any different than avenging wrath + 10% haste with a 2 minute more cooldown. Am i missing something?

[Deleted]

I don't get something about GoAK.

Why is it that every other classes cooldowns only have a one-time mana cost? We have to spend way more mana on our cooldown, which is also shit, than any other healer. That doesn't make sense to me.

[Deleted]

I don't get how the changes to guardian make guardian any different than avenging wrath + 10% haste with a 2 minute more cooldown. Am i missing something?

Yes, its actually significantly worse then avenging wrath+10% haste with 2 mins more cd.

When I'm under the effect of Avenging Wrath, 20% of my healing(and its effects) are amplified. This means that the legendary cloak's healing is increased as is the mastery shields.

When under the effect of 30% GoaK neither the mastery shields, nor the legendary cloak are affected.

For a 5 minute cd, this is a joke.

[Iceadin]

Yes, its actually significantly worse then avenging wrath+10% haste with 2 mins more cd.

When I'm under the effect of Avenging Wrath, 20% of my healing(and its effects) are amplified. This means that the legendary cloak's healing is increased as is the mastery shields.

When under the effect of 30% GoaK neither the mastery shields, nor the legendary cloak are affected.

For a 5 minute cd, this is a joke.

And not only that, but the wording also sounds very confusing

[nightfalls]

I have to love how "mechanics phase" was over and only then did they catch the Ability Lag bug (despite people probably knowing for months what was actually causing it). So now... back to more mechanics?

Guardian just needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. If you look at how it has been altered over time... it's pretty horrible.

[Deleted]

if paladin cds were bad now they are facepalm