Shadow Word: Revolution!

[mindp]

your performance also rely heavily on your gear compared to your guild mates.

^Thatttttttttttt

[Dierdre]

@Mew:

Must be great playing with garbage locks.

And rogues.

[Deleted]

@Mew:


And rogues.

And I repeat

All of our guild DPS are multiple/dominant Rank 1 WoL players, but of course, nobody plays perfect on every single attempt, especially not this early in progression.

But keep being butthurt, that will definitely make people want to take you to raids.

[supersnap]

And I repeat


But keep being butthurt, that will definitely make people want to take you to raids.

A warlock doing 10k less dps on Malkorok to a shadow priest is definition of a horrible warlock. Can we please stop with the "im doing alright being top 3" while most of your raid is complete trash.

But its very clear this is who blizzard balances around. So thank you Mew.


I understand you're frustrated, but it's not Hexn's guild's warlocks who are to blame - try to play nice Hexn (Mew on the forums) obviously thinks highly of them, and they too are just playing the class they were given.

It would be nice if we were more competitive in single target, but Warlocks aren't climbin' in our windows and snatchin' our DPS up

~ Yva

[Deleted]

A warlock doing 10k less dps on Malkorok to a shadow priest is definition of a horrible warlock. Can we please stop with the "im doing alright being top 3" while most of your raid is complete trash.

But its very clear this is who blizzard balances around. So thank you Mew.

So because our warlock has a bad try on the 2nd week of heroics, he's trash? lol whatever you say

http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/stormscale/lyr%C3%B6v/

Check last tier, 96-100 percentile on all bosses. Oh and 100 percentile on Malkorok last week.

It's sooo easy to talk shit when you are anonymous, eh?

Im pretty sure ALL of our players take a big fat dump on 99.99% of the people posting in this thread.

Let's put you on the spot for a while mister supersnap. Link me your armory and WoL so I can go through your logs for a minute. Or are you just an LFR hero with a big mouth?

[Dierdre]

@Mew:

Don't take it personal, I'm not saying you or me or any particular shadow priest sucks. All I'm saying is that ATM shadow is a rather poor choice within the limitations of 10-man. In 25 man there is room for other players getting our backs when we suck, allowing us to almost (cough warlocks cough) shine when we don't.

If you in fact play with competent, equally geared and skilled players, you should be aware of this. You can also check logs from equally or more skilled raiding groups to see where we really stand. I top on Protectors / Galakras, I suck very very bad on malkorok / thok; that's my experience. Logs show how thousands of other players fare. Saying "we're just fine" is not going to make it go away.

[mindp]

So much hatred in this thread.

[Deleted]

@Mew:



If you in fact play with competent, equally geared and skilled players, you should be aware of this. You can also check logs from equally or more skilled raiding groups to see where we really stand. I top on Protectors / Galakras, I suck very very bad on malkorok / thok; that's my experience. Logs show how thousands of other players fare. Saying "we're just fine" is not going to make it go away.

Logs don't always show an accurate picture. First of all, WoL doesnt filter heroics from normal parses yet:



They are all just thrown together in one big steaming pile, which means comparing parses between classes isn't that useful. In normal mode you can largely ignore/cheese mechanics and some classes can achieve ridiculous numbers, thus obfuscating real comparison.

Second is the gear preference, which only compounds the issue. Warlocks were/are overtuned, and any 10man guild who cares about most efficient progression will funnel gear to their mages and warlocks before their shadowpriests, thus further stacking the deck in their favor.

With that said, yes we are certainly overshadowed by locks right now, but the assertion that our spec is overall weak and undesirable is just emotionally charged exaggeration. Sure we could use some help on movement or single target, and some of the specs we compete directly against for gear and raidspots could use a tweak down, but shadowpriests are just fine unless you play for actual world first, which nobody in this thread is.

If you need tips on how to improve as a shadowpriest, hop on over to Howtopriest.com and me and other top priests have plenty of info to help you out with that. Crying over minor imbalances won't help anyone.

[Veiled]

What you spec you been playing as ? I tried desto was not fun and well demo is odd, aff is next on my list to try

Destro, but it's weird. Trying Aff tonight I think.

So much hatred in this thread.

IT FUELS US.

[Deleted]

@Hexn How did you kill Protectors in 4 min on first week? What was your item level and what was your actual DPS on that fight?

[Deleted]

@Hexn How did you kill Protectors in 4 min on first week? What was your item level and what was your actual DPS on that fight?

Our normal kill? If this is the log you mean:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1595&e=1875

We did 2x raids on the first week of normals, so it was a mixed alt/main run. I think I went in with 549 gear or somewhere around that.

None of us did any PTR raiding, so we played very conservative on the first 2 weeks, basically learning all the fights from scratch through the dungeon journal made raiding fun for us.

[Deleted]

Our normal kill? If this is the log you mean:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1595&e=1875

We did 2x raids on the first week of normals, so it was a mixed alt/main run. I think I went in with 549 gear or somewhere around that.

None of us did any PTR raiding, so we played very conservative on the first 2 weeks, basically learning all the fights from scratch through the dungeon journal made raiding fun for us.

Oh, nevermind. I saw wrong.

Actually not being forced to watch videos of some dogs killing a boss sounds good to me. Having to watch boss fights before raids and trying to see what abilities does and then being expected to know everything before you even have pulled the boss for the first time is the worst shit ever when it comes to raiding. That's why I rarely did it.

[Deleted]

Oh, nevermind. I saw wrong.

Actually not being forced to watch videos of some dogs killing a boss sounds good to me. Having to watch boss fights before raids and trying to see what abilities does and then being expected to know everything before you even have pulled the boss for the first time is the worst shit ever when it comes to raiding. That's why I rarely did it.

I agree.

Our guild actually struggles a bit with this; on one hand we really want to push for top world ranks, but on the other hand none of us particularly enjoy PTR raiding, which of course is a requirement for that. We really enjoy the novelty of a new tier, and the excitement of a patch going live without knowing completely what to expect on the next boss, and I think that is what keeps us playing the game.

If we had to spend hours and hours learning all the fights beforehand, only to have them on farm once the patch goes live, we probably would burn out so fast on the game. At least I know I would.

On a similar note: in a perfect world I would love to see world of warcraft without a PTR. Everything would have to be tested internally, and all guilds would be kept in the dark. Imagine how fun it would be to have all guilds going in completely blind on day 1 of the patch, not knowing which bosses, how many, what the loot tables were and what the instance looked like. Like a complete surprise. Nobody having an advantage over others and everyone would have to learn it on the fly. I think that would make the game really refreshing, and the world first race a lot more exciting. But the reality is, that PTR testing on a large scale is simply needed to tune the encounters and iron out bugs before it goes live, so that will never happen. One can dream though

[Dierdre]

So much hatred in this thread.

Not at all. I just respectfully disagree with Mew when he says that shadow is not undesirable for 10-man at the moment. We're just not as good as a second lock for 10 man.

[Deleted]

I agree.

Our guild actually struggles a bit with this; on one hand we really want to push for top world ranks, but on the other hand none of us particularly enjoy PTR raiding, which of course is a requirement for that. We really enjoy the novelty of a new tier, and the excitement of a patch going live without knowing completely what to expect on the next boss, and I think that is what keeps us playing the game.

If we had to spend hours and hours learning all the fights beforehand, only to have them on farm once the patch goes live, we probably would burn out so fast on the game. At least I know I would.

On a similar note: in a perfect world I would love to see world of warcraft without a PTR. Everything would have to be tested internally, and all guilds would be kept in the dark. Imagine how fun it would be to have all guilds going in completely blind on day 1 of the patch, not knowing which bosses, how many, what the loot tables were and what the instance looked like. Like a complete surprise. Nobody having an advantage over others and everyone would have to learn it on the fly. I think that would make the game really refreshing, and the world first race a lot more exciting. But the reality is, that PTR testing on a large scale is simply needed to tune the encounters and iron out bugs before it goes live, so that will never happen. One can dream though

Have to say I totally agree with this. I'm also sure it could be done if they got themselves some proper in-house testing for the scale needed. The main thing holding it back would always be the community though, we're not willing to wait however much longer it would take for internal testing to happen. PTR just gets the whole thing done faster, which sadly is what 'most' people seem to want.

[Angelicat]

Not at all. I just respectfully disagree with Mew when he says that shadow is not undesirable for 10-man at the moment. We're just not as good as a second lock for 10 man.

I think shadow ST is a little low too, but I really think you are overreacting and I have to agree with Mew.

By your logic, wouldn't everyone in the raid just be replace-able with a warlock then? That has more to do with warlocks being too good than spriest being horrible. If you can get full raid buffs in your 10 man and bring 2-3 warlocks, yeah I'm sure you would be better off DPS wise.

Utility wise though, we do bring a lot to the table compared to other classes (even compared to warlocks once you have more than one) with good off healing/life swap and dispersion being useful to soak some of the numerous mechanics in SoO.

In conclusion, I don't think spriest are a "waste of a slot in 10 mans", I think we are fine if you compare us to every other class besides warlocks.

[Dierdre]

By your logic, wouldn't everyone in the raid just be replace-able with a warlock then?

Of course not! After all they'll need a sporebat.

Utility wise though, we do bring a lot to the table compared to other classes (even compared to warlocks once you have more than one) with good off healing/life swap and dispersion being useful to soak some of the numerous mechanics in SoO.

You see, this used to be the case in 5.0. We could get away with sucking on pretty much any fight except Elegon because we had awesome off-healing. With the 5.2 off-healing nerf, this was no more. Void shift on a 10-min CD made it next to useless. Dispersion is nice, but unending resolve + sacrificial pact, astral shift + shamanistic rage or deterrence will do the trick in most instances where you would be soaking.

They've taken most aspects of the spec that made it unique and desirable, nerfed them until they're meh and then give nothing in return. I love my priest, but as someone pointed out along the thread, right now we feel like the poor man's warlock.

[Granyala]

but the assertion that our spec is overall weak and undesirable is just emotionally charged exaggeration

I agree. That there is some hyperbole involved.
But I also don't think that any shadow has a chance against an equally geared lock that knows what he is doing and doesn't get fu*** up by RNG or brain-lags.

Actually not being forced to watch videos of some dogs killing a boss sounds good to me. Having to watch boss fights before raids and trying to see what abilities does and then being expected to know everything before you even have pulled the boss for the first time is the worst shit ever when it comes to raiding. That's why I rarely did it.

Yeah PTR raiding is sort of like reading up on a movie that just came out. My Guild tried to do it too (even if we're far cry from hardcore) but I outright refused, since I want something to look forward when a new patch is deployed.

I also hate if they talk like half an hour before pulling the goddamn boss. It's far more effective for me to SEE the fight and learn that to talk through it.

[Frmercury]

There's something seriously wrong with my computer. It LOOKS like I'm on MMO-Champion right now but I would swear on the Necronomicon that this is the [H2P] Bitch and Complain forums.

Ya I played some Rome 2 after raid and wasn't keeping people on track on the forums! *cracks whip* Let's all be friends

[Tharid]

I like that Mew guy. He really tries to show where Shadow stands from his point of view, and he does it with alot of evidence and detailed comments about that particular evidence.

Most of people in this thread (except Dierdre) just jump on the "warlock in same gear with same skill is better so gtfo" bandwagon statement. Nobody actually tries to post logs or deliver evidence that Warlocks in their raids do more damage with the exact same ilvl; the bandwagon just takes this statement for granted.

In fact, the only way to PROVE that statement is to play a Shadow on all bossfights and to play a Warlock on all bossfights as ONE person with the SAME ilvl and gear. Otherwise you still have that glory-loophole of the Shadow being a "good player" or the Warlock being a "bad player".

And you know what REALLY grinds my gears? This statement makes me believe that I'm the best player in my 10-man raid. I lead the meters in every fight so far, and I almost feel bad about it. (And I don't care about the fucking 25-man elitism, I really fucking don't. I play the same game as you guys. If you wanna make a clear statement about a class, you have to count in 10-man as well as 25-man)
Are my raidmembers really that bad? Do I really have to push the issue as a raidleader regarding their skill, ignoring the fact that they're playing the best they can? Am I really the guy that says to his Warlock buddy "Yo X, ppl on H2P tell me you SUCK!"?

Either way, nothing you can say about the state of Shadow is correct in this community.

People like me say he is fine because they are doing well in their raid. Perhaps those are good players, and their raid-members are bad players. Mew shows that this is not always the case, which is fine in my book, I believe him.

People like [insert_random_H2P_mod_name] say he is not fine because they are not doing well in their raid. Perhaps they are bad players, and their raid-members are good players. Of course those people are not bad players, so the conclusion of the other raid-member's classes being stronger is obvious.


Circulus vitiosus.