Blizzard destruction of world pvp intentionally gets more obvious....

[Satus]

Read one my previous posts, they specifically said that they want it to happen.

Ganking is used in pvp to refer to any unfair fight. People of equal level and gear and skill often gank each other and corpse camp each other. Many people have no problem with that. That is the sort of ganking that blizz set up pvp servers for and defends. What people here are addressing, and what blizzard hasn't addressed, and what you are pointedly ignoring to just point at something vague as gospel on the subject, is the specific type of ganking where there is no chance whatsoever for one of the players involved, because the game engine doesn't allow them a chance. There is no scenario where a level 90 in reasonably appropriate gear will be bested by a level 58 at the dark portal. 30 levels of disparity is something that the games mechanics just don't allow you to make up for.

Would there be an option to turn this on and off? Because if so, then I'd probably be for this. Part of me would think thats its fine the way it is, but, yeah, I don't see that as a terrible alternative or anything.

Well if you wanted you could engage in pvp with someone, or even attack the level 90 who would then handily be able to one shot you as before, or just permaflag yourself like some people do on non pvp servers. The idea of a pvp server is that pvp should be something you engage in, a player getting repeatedly oneshotted by someone who they have no means of interacting with at all is not engaging in pvp.

[Lime]

Ganking is used in pvp to refer to any unfair fight. People of equal level and gear and skill often gank each other and corpse camp each other. Many people have no problem with that. That is the sort of ganking that blizz set up pvp servers for and defends. What people here are addressing, and what blizzard hasn't addressed, and what you are pointedly ignoring to just point at something vague as gospel on the subject, is the specific type of ganking where there is no chance whatsoever for one of the players involved, because the game engine doesn't allow them a chance. There is no scenario where a level 90 in reasonably appropriate gear will be bested by a level 58 at the dark portal. 30 levels of disparity is something that the games mechanics just don't allow you to make up for.

The last post on the link I provided states that, in Blizzard's eyes, it's not griefing. And that was a scenario where the guy was complaining about the huge level difference in addition to corpse camping.

[Saffa]

Quote from the latest interview with gc.

`
There are a few leveling areas that need stronger guards, such as around the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands.`

So even the areas where world pvp is a tiny possiblity are going to get `super` guards that kill off any individual attack on an area before it even gets going.......

tell me why I rolled on a pvp server again? `sigh` this game used to have some awesome open world battles before elite guards were introduced its totally at odds with the concept of a pvp server....if they want to be safe while leveling roll people should roll pve!

Maybe GC and Blizz do not consider 40 level 90s hanging around to gank level 58s daring to go to The Outlands as great world PvP, just a gang of kiddies being bullies and doing the equivalent of pulling wings off flies, PvP realm or not. The world is vast, go and find somewhere were they are the same level and PvP becomes more fun. If it is just bullying you want, there are people who can help with that problem.

[Lime]

or just permaflag yourself like some people do on non pvp servers.

Yeah, thats what I was talking about. I know that I would personally want it on.

[ssjgohan4life]

SINCE WHEN WAS IT MEANT TO BE FAIR! ITS RANDOM WORLD PVP YOU MORON! ITS NOT ABOUT BEING FAIR ITS ABOUT ATTACKING THE OTHER FACTION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM THEN THEM RESPONDING IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! YOU WANT TO BEAT THOSE ATTACKING YOU GET SOME LEVEL 90S OF YOUR OWN IN TO CLEAR THEM OUT!

do you get it now? its not about a fair fight its about 2 opposing factions at war and the freedom to raid each other whenever they want! that is world pvp!

The issue people are having is GANKING, which is NOT pvp. Ganking is a higher lvl killing a lower lvl who is just trying to level because they have nothing better to do, you say they should get to 90 themselves if they dont like it? Would be much easier if some lvl 90 wasn't constantly killing them while they were trying to level wouldn't it? I hate pvp, resilience ruined the whole process for me, and thats why I am not on a pvp server. But comparing world pvp as in raids on cities and towns to ganking a lowbie you randomly spot then spawn camping them, they are completely different.

[Lime]

It is something that by definition needs to encompass BOTH parties in the fight.

So I decided for the sake of the argument to look up the definitons on thefreedictionary, an extremely popular and accurate website as I'm sure you know.

Fun Fact:

Turns out- Against

Both sides are right, both sides are wrong. Depending on your definition, it could go either way.

[Baracuda]

The issue people are having is GANKING, which is NOT pvp. Ganking is a higher lvl killing a lower lvl who is just trying to level because they have nothing better to do, you say they should get to 90 themselves if they dont like it? Would be much easier if some lvl 90 wasn't constantly killing them while they were trying to level wouldn't it? I hate pvp, resilience ruined the whole process for me, and thats why I am not on a pvp server. But comparing world pvp as in raids on cities and towns to ganking a lowbie you randomly spot then spawn camping them, they are completely different.

How did resilience ruin anything in it's current state? Everyone has it atm so no different from vanilla really. Only fail is that PvE gear is better than PvP for WPvP.

[Shakari]

ah your one of this I want pvp but only on my terms people.............well then do arena/bgs! world pvp is meant to be dangerous and random and suprising.....I didnt roll a pvp server to sit in the middle of a town knowing I cant be suddenly attacked because theres all these elite pve npcs protecting me! Nor did I roll a pvp server to have my solo raids on alliance territory fought off not by other players banding together as pvp is meant to play out but by elite pve npcs!

Its pointless!

And going back to the quote from gc.... in areas such as the dark portal which are faction neutral and in lore fought over ground there is even less sense in having elite guards!

You one of these that seem to think killing someone 30 levels below you in 1 or maybe 2 hits is in any shape or form PvP. It isn't as the other person is dad before they get to do anything. What your complaining about is basically "why can't I gank people with no risk or recourse"

I idea of actual world pvp ie like in vanilla at tarren mill and that was about as close as it ever got outside the odd "lets raid the opposite factions capital city" has not happened or been occuring for a quite a while.

What these stronger guards do is to stop you getting cheap thrills ganking low lvl players. If you didn't do that they would not be needed.

[Talen]

And yes they're against each other. One guy is playing cat, the other is playing mouse.

Not going to happen when one player is outmatched through gear or level or is seeing a loading screen the entire battle.

Read one my previous posts, they specifically said that they want it to happen.

And yet they are making the guards stronger.

Blizzard wants more world to take place, Griefing? Not so much.

Terrible point imo.

You think making the levelling experience so bad for players levelling up that they quit the game isn't a problem?

EJL

[Lime]

Not going to happen when one player is outmatched through gear or level or is seeing a loading screen the entire battle.

Gear and level have nothing to do with cat and mouse. One guy is running away from another trying to outsmart him in the process, technically thats PvP no matter which definition you use. As for the loading screen thing, I've stated many times now that I'm against The Dark Portal ganking. It is PvP though depending on which definition you use.

And yet they are making the guards stronger.

Blizzard wants more world to take place, Griefing? Not so much.

They're making guards stronger in one area. Guards have been nerfed in the past for PvP realms. It will change absolutely nothing else.

You think making the levelling experience so bad for players levelling up that they quit the game isn't a problem?

I've never heard of anybody who's quit over this, hence why I gave an equally bizarre counterpoint.

[TirielWoW]

And what I'm trying to understand is why people want blizzard to carry their butts everywhere and make the game even less dangerous.

Honestly, the only thing that's dangerous in WoW while leveling are enemy players. Remove that and you have 0 risk in the game. 0 risk = boring.

If it were to me I'd have all strong guards removed >.>

I don't see what one has to do with the other.

Where is the sport in one-shotting someone who quite literally has no possible chance of fighting back or even escaping? Where's the sport in that? Are you so inwardly small and childish that you honestly gain pleasure from ruining someone else's game like that? To camp a new player for hours at a time?

Blizzard is directing new players to PvP servers, something I found out recently, much to my surprise when I ran into a new player on a PvP server. He'd been playing WoW for 3 days and was getting very frustrated with the fact that certain...people...seemed to get their rocks off by camping him until he logged out. He didn't have a 90. He didn't know anyone in the game. He probably would have quit if I hadn't come along. And yes, Blizzard directed him to Zuluhed. As a new player.

If you want PvP, come attack me. No, seriously - try it. Try it with someone who at least has a hope of survival, of getting away, if not fighting back.

But ganking lowbies repeatedly? Corpse camping them? Seriously, do you kick puppies? Because that's about as sporting as what you're doing to these low level characters. It shows a real lack of personal integrity and a lack of courage in general.

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Dark Portal ganking is fair. 90's against 90's and there is nothing wrong with that. If you got a problem, transfer to PvE server.

If it's 90s vs 90s, is it really ganking? I don't think anyone is upset about 90s vs 90s. They're mostly ganking level 58-60 players.

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I've never heard of anybody who's quit over this, hence why I gave an equally bizarre counterpoint.

I ran into a player a few weeks ago who almost did. Brand new to WoW. Had no real understanding of PvP servers when he rolled on one. Blizzard -directed- him to the server he went to. He didn't have a clue. Being ganked once or twice didn't bug him, but he had people who would just repeatedly corpse camp him for hours at a time.

[Deleted]

I don't see what one has to do with the other.

Where is the sport in one-shotting someone who quite literally has no possible chance of fighting back or even escaping? Where's the sport in that? Are you so inwardly small and childish that you honestly gain pleasure from ruining someone else's game like that? To camp a new player for hours at a time?

Blizzard is directing new players to PvP servers, something I found out recently, much to my surprise when I ran into a new player on a PvP server. He'd been playing WoW for 3 days and was getting very frustrated with the fact that certain...people...seemed to get their rocks off by camping him until he logged out. He didn't have a 90. He didn't know anyone in the game. He probably would have quit if I hadn't come along. And yes, Blizzard directed him to Zuluhed. As a new player.

If you want PvP, come attack me. No, seriously - try it. Try it with someone who at least has a hope of survival, of getting away, if not fighting back.

But ganking lowbies repeatedly? Corpse camping them? Seriously, do you kick puppies? Because that's about as sporting as what you're doing to these low level characters. It shows a real lack of personal integrity and a lack of courage in general.

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If it's 90s vs 90s, is it really ganking? I don't think anyone is upset about 90s vs 90s. They're mostly ganking level 58-60 players.

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I ran into a player a few weeks ago who almost did. Brand new to WoW. Had no real understanding of PvP servers when he rolled on one. Blizzard -directed- him to the server he went to. He didn't have a clue. Being ganked once or twice didn't bug him, but he had people who would just repeatedly corpse camp him for hours at a time.

That's an interesting point. Was world pvp camping that bad in the old days? I don't remember it that way. Camping a player non stop could mean a ban from gm if reported and was always considered rude. Of course occasionally one could be killed once or twice just for the "lols" if a newbie was passing by me ^^ But on low level quest hubs pvping agains players of the same level was allways permited and fun....part of the experience of a PVP server which totally lost its purpose because there is no more world pvp now....

[Lochton]

Quote from the latest interview with gc.

`
There are a few leveling areas that need stronger guards, such as around the Dark Portal in Blasted Lands.`

So even the areas where world pvp is a tiny possiblity are going to get `super` guards that kill off any individual attack on an area before it even gets going.......

tell me why I rolled on a pvp server again? `sigh` this game used to have some awesome open world battles before elite guards were introduced its totally at odds with the concept of a pvp server....if they want to be safe while leveling roll people should roll pve!

Just can't see this as ruining World PvP.. Just.. Don't camp people in towns/villages? Easy. There's plentu of world PvP to go around.

[Rsharr]

On classic, the goblin cities had a lot of pvp AND powerfull guards. Also you would not fight the guards afraid of losing reputation.

[TirielWoW]

That's an interesting point. Was world pvp camping that bad in the old days? I don't remember it that way. Camping a player non stop could mean a ban from gm if reported and was always considered rude. Of course occasionally one could be killed once or twice just for the "lols" if a newbie was passing by me ^^ But on low level quest hubs pvping agains players of the same level was allways permited and fun....part of the experience of a PVP server which totally lost its purpose because there is no more world pvp now....

They tell you now that "it's a PvP problem so use a PvP solution." The only time I've heard of them stepping in is when a group is making a zone unusable for hours at a time (which is why they're looking into the Dark Portal area).

And, by the by, World PvP is most certainly alive, but not on PvP servers. No, World PvP is alive, well, and vibrant in perhaps the most unexpected place - RP servers.

I'm completely serious. Moon Guard alone has...let me see...Alliance Side (that I know of) Blood of Lordaeron, League of Lordaeron, Clergy of the Holy Light, Shadows of Argus, Lineage of the Moon, Vestige of the Phoenix, The Seventh Vanguard, The Magus Senate of Dalaran, Blackmoon Sentinels, The Unholy Kingdom, The Nordrassil Accord, GYRO, The Dwarven Vanguard, and Avongarde. The Horde has The Cult of Nerox, The Hawktotem Tribe, The Legion of Vengeance, The Sunguard, Warscar Reach, Nameless Legion, The Rising Sun Coalition, The War Dancers, and The Dominion of the Sun. All of these guilds self-identify as Medium-to-Heavy PvP. There are still MORE guilds that self-identify as "Light PvP," but specifically say they are heavily involved in RP-PvP.

Last year in September, an estimated 500 level 85 Horde and Alliance fought it out in Dustwallow Marsh from Brakenwall Village to Theramore Isle. This was the culmination of six months of clashes on a campaign that started in Durotar at Northwatch Hold, continued south into the Northern and Southern Barrens, dipped into Feralas, and finally marched into Dustwallow Marsh. Hundreds of players participated in that time.

It wasn't ganking. It wasn't corpse-camping lowbies. It was honest-to-goodness duking it out PvP, but in an RP setting with a few general rules, some goals (i.e. hold this area, destroy this area, etc), and organization between Horde and Alliance.

It still exists, but unsurprisingly only on servers where socially-stunted trolls don't have free reign to abuse anyone weaker than themselves.

[Deleted]

This mega RP Pvp event cant be done that many times^^ probably happens a handful of times and never see them again. Hope Blizzard creates some type of mechanic in the game to fix this problem.

[Lochton]

This mega RP Pvp event cant be done that many times^^ probably happens a handful of times and never see them again. Hope Blizzard creates some type of mechanic in the game to fix this problem.

Used to be so many RP pvp events. But now that people can be merged over on the RP servers by CRZ or Battle.net invite - most people give up arranging. Really hope Virtual Realm Merge will keep the servers listed as types and not battlegroups. Miss back when we had RPpvp events every 3rd month, or had a huge one lasting a week.

I have noticed that many takes RP servers as a sanctuary and then proceeds to treat the people badly there.

ON TOPIC: The guards will just make the World PvP more real. You can't just swoop in and nuke a guy and get away with it.

[TirielWoW]

This mega RP Pvp event cant be done that many times^^ probably happens a handful of times and never see them again. Hope Blizzard creates some type of mechanic in the game to fix this problem.

It's not that the potential isn't there. It's more like a lot of the organizers get burnt out.

[Lochton]

It's not that the potential isn't there. It's more like a lot of the organizers get burnt out.

Specially when griefers appear and ruin something well plans in no time.

[Kuul]

There's a big difference between pointless low lvl ganking and actually world PvP.

I remember reading about item in the Timeless Isles that will make you able to kill players from both sides. But I guess that doesn't count, right?