the reason normal is hard for most people.

[Jensxo]

im just spitballing here , but cud the reason that normals are hard for most people , might be because most people go into LFR - ignoring mechanics that would otherwise kill u in normal , and once those ppl have cleard LFR and think they are ready for normal , they say normal is hard because their are mechanics. I actually may be on to something here lol....im pretty sure thats the point that most raiders make about lfr , it makes the playerbase terrible players that ignore mechanics or have no clue about fights PURELY because thats what LFR is, and when they go into normal mode , they think its hard because they arent used to ignoring mechanics in LFR ? am i right or am i wrong ?

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and then call for nerfs to make normal mode more like LFR ?

[Soisoisoi]

Yeah, we've known that for a long time that there is a big gap in difficulty. See the video Preach made about going from 15-Lei Shen literally AFKing.

With that said, according to Blizz, the majority of people who do LFR wouldn't have raided at all anyway so that gap means nothing as they aren't the same people who would be doing normal.

[judgementofantonidas]

im just spitballing here , but cud the reason that normals are hard for most people , might be because most people go into LFR - ignoring mechanics that would otherwise kill u in normal , and once those ppl have cleard LFR and think they are ready for normal , they say normal is hard because their are mechanics. I actually may be on to something here lol....im pretty sure thats the point that most raiders make about lfr , it makes the playerbase terrible players that ignore mechanics or have no clue about fights PURELY because thats what LFR is, and when they go into normal mode , they think its hard because they arent used to ignoring mechanics in LFR ? am i right or am i wrong ?

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and then call for nerfs to make normal mode more like LFR ?

this has been obvious since LFR was released. it teaches bad habits to fresh players who do not yet know any better, and those habits are reinforced by the players there merely to farm valor that do know better but don't care to perform because it is not needed.

[Jensxo]

So blizzards idea of introducing people to raiding is literally making people become terrible at the game ? its a neverending thing , what happened to when the playerbase wanted things to be harder not easier....

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this has been obvious since LFR was released. it teaches bad habits to fresh players who do not yet know any better, and those habits are reinforced by the players there merely to farm valor that do know better but don't care to perform because it is not needed.

So why do blizzard cater to these people ? any person with a brain can see that its not very good game design..

[Wazooty]

What the game should do is open up the dungeon journal to the specific ability that killed the player.

How about we make the players better, instead of making things easier and easier for them?

[Floopa]

The reason normal is hard for most people is because most people suck at this game. That's the reason.

[Jensxo]

how about they remove LFR and flex , and let people know that if u want to raid , U LEARN how to play , just like if u want to pvp , U LEARN how to play ? isnt that a better game design than this ?

[Deleted]

.


You should't have 1 shot-kill mechanics in "Normal dificulty". Also you should't have mechanics where 1 player can wipe the whole raid. (hello Garalon) Is just bad gamedesign.


I know, every chain have the strenght of it's weakest link but ...
Most of the normal guilds usualy have few good players and few friends and family casuals to fill their ranks .

Is not good for the game to force them to either drop the friends or enjoy endless wipes. The results will be just guild disbands .

I really can't see any advantage for the good of the game having 80% of the normal guilds stucked for months at Garalon or Horridon .

They won't learn to play better , it's a reality . They will just /guilddisband , quit the game , or stop raiding. It's a game , people play a game to relax, and forget about the sht they got in real life , they simply won't accept it in their game too .

[The Ogdru Jahad]

It's hard to have an "easy mode" and still retain the spirit of the raid etc. If ya want something to be accessible to the masses, you're going to have to dumb it down, and to do that in WoW, you get rid of fight mechanics.

The thing is, are people really that dumb to not expect mechanics in the normal mode? People seem to believe now that LFR is a good substitute for actual raiding. It isn't.

[Mirean]

I don't think that this neccessarily must be true. Even before LFR, people complained, that normal mode is hard and needs to be nerfed etc. Yes, sometimes the normal mode was kind of over top (Firelands pre-nerf), but I think, the most important thing is that people either can't coordinate together, or are new to game and don't completely understand it. When LFR came, lots of people who never raided before went in and tried it. They liked it, because they could kill some bosses. Then, with the feeling of "I'm good, I killed deathwing in LFR!" they went into a normal pug and failed.

So what you are saying can be true, but I think the problem lies deeper than just "LFR".

my 2cents.

[judgementofantonidas]

So blizzards idea of introducing people to raiding is literally making people become terrible at the game ? its a neverending thing , what happened to when the playerbase wanted things to be harder not easier....

This is just my opinion but the portion of the player base that does strive for excellence at this game, which is our chosen hobby, is not the portion that is asking for easier content, however that portion is far out weighed by the portion who just wants an easily playable video game and "pays the same 15 dollars" that everyone else does.

[Jensxo]

The reason normal is hard for most people is because most people suck at this game. That's the reason.

Most people suck at this game because they have done LFR and think that is raiding ? and then expect normal mode to be that easy lol ? dont try and ignore the truth.

[judgementofantonidas]

how about they remove LFR and flex , and let people know that if u want to raid , U LEARN how to play , just like if u want to pvp , U LEARN how to play ? isnt that a better game design than this ?

this is exactly how it should be but never will.

[Chirri]

according to Blizz, the majority of people who do LFR wouldn't have raided at all anyway so that gap means nothing as they aren't the same people who would be doing normal.

This is what I'm going with, myself. Maybe Blizz is lying, but I don't see why they'd even have to.

"Normal" has always been hard for most people, that's why most people haven't actually raided, and that's why Blizzard put LFR in - other wise they're basically wasting quite a lot of their budget on something a very small percentage of active players ever manage to see. They wanted EVERYone with any interest to be able to see it, and now they can. For normal/HC raiders, LFR is like diet soda or low calorie snacks (not at all satisfying) but for everyone else, it's at least a taste of what raiding's about.

[vesseblah]

I've been in few casual guilds on the side with my alts in WLK, Cata and MoP, and saying this from own experience only:

There are two main reasons, one is being undergeared. It's something that hardcore raiders will never understand because they enter next tier raid always overgearing it by a mile. For normal mode raiders because of the gearing normal mode is almost as hard as heroic mode is for heroic mode raiders.

Another reason is the lack of skill or play experience. People who have the skill tend to gravitate to heroic mode raiding guilds, while those with less time or less skill are dragging down the progress in normal modes.

Wether that is good or bad thing is whole another thing, but in the big picture is has pretty much created two tiered system where there are two separate progress paths for two distinct class of players. I'm pretty sure flex raiding will turn out to be more popular than normal mode raiding in next tier, and might actually lead into more guilds rising up to heroic boss or two from normal mode kills when they get to farm gear faster and gain confidence and skill.

LFR has got nothing to do with it, things have been the same before it was implemented.

[judgementofantonidas]

You should't have 1 shot-kill mechanics in "Normal dificulty". Also you should't have mechanics where 1 player can wipe the whole raid. (hello Garalon)
I know, every chain have the strenght of it's weakest link but ...
Most of the normal guilds usualy have few good players and few friends and family casuals to fill their ranks .

Is not good for the game to force them to either drop the friends or enjoy endless wipes. The results will be just guild disbands .

I really can't see any advantage for the good of the game having 80% of the normal guilds stucked for months at Garalon or Horridon .

the advantage is that guilds who put in the work to excel will push forward and mom and pop guilds will either improve or remain feeder guilds for those that do.

[NatePsy]

im just spitballing here , but cud the reason that normals are hard for most people , might be because most people go into LFR - ignoring mechanics that would otherwise kill u in normal , and once those ppl have cleard LFR and think they are ready for normal , they say normal is hard because their are mechanics. I actually may be on to something here lol....im pretty sure thats the point that most raiders make about lfr , it makes the playerbase terrible players that ignore mechanics or have no clue about fights PURELY because thats what LFR is, and when they go into normal mode , they think its hard because they arent used to ignoring mechanics in LFR ? am i right or am i wrong ?

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and then call for nerfs to make normal mode more like LFR ?

Not really, I used to raid from BC to Wrath and even I've noticed the jump in complexity. These days encounters have gotten more complex and it's not because people are jumping into it after spending time in LFR, the fact is encounters are getting more and more complex every expansion.

[Jensxo]

You should't have 1 shot-kill mechanics in "Normal dificulty". Also you should't have mechanics where 1 player can wipe the whole raid. (hello Garalon)
I know, every chain have the strenght of it's weakest link but ...
Most of the normal guilds usualy have few good players and few friends and family casuals to fill their ranks .

Is not good for the game to force them to either drop the friends or enjoy endless wipes. The results will be just guild disbands .

I really can't see any advantage for the good of the game having 80% of the normal guilds stucked for months at Garalon or Horridon .

They won't learn to play better , it's a reality . They will just /guilddisband , quit the game , or stop raiding.

garalon and horridon, but those fights arent THAT difficult on normal... if u actually read the mechanics ITS not hard at all. Go and read them and understand them. Its not difficult at all, heroic yes but normal mode no.

[Floopa]

Most people suck at this game because they have done LFR and think that is raiding ? and then expect normal mode to be that easy lol ? dont try and ignore the truth.

Most people suck at this game because they suck. There's no rhyme or reason to it. They just suck.

[judgementofantonidas]

I've been in few casual guilds on the side with my alts in WLK, Cata and MoP, and saying this from own experience only:

There are two main reasons, one is being undergeared. It's something that hardcore raiders will never understand because they enter next tier raid always overgearing it by a mile. For normal mode raiders because of the gearing normal mode is almost as hard as heroic mode is for heroic mode raiders.

Another reason is the lack of skill or play experience. People who have the skill tend to gravitate to heroic mode raiding guilds, while those with less time or less skill are dragging down the progress in normal modes.

Wether that is good or bad thing is whole another thing, but in the big picture is has pretty much created two tiered system where there are two separate progress paths for two distinct class of players. I'm pretty sure flex raiding will turn out to be more popular than normal mode raiding in next tier, and might actually lead into more guilds rising up to heroic boss or two from normal mode kills when they get to farm gear faster and gain confidence and skill.

LFR has got nothing to do with it, things have been the same before it was implemented.

lets make a space to include people who even after years of playing continue to click. they really have no place in anything past preliminary raiding. one of the things that is constantly a headache in my guild is that I know that I have clickers and continue to raid with them because I cannot bring myself to take the logical step of weeding them out.