Item Squish Confirmed

[anjan011]

Ok lets see, at 532 ilvl my hunter has 500k+ HP

now i see a hunter below 300k, i know he isn't 90 yet or just hit 90

if i see a hunter with 350k+ hp i know he is getting some 5 man heroic gears

if i see a hunter with 400k+ hp, i know he has some lfr gear

if i see one with 450+ hp, i m sure he is doing normal progression

if its 500k+ i know he is doing heroics or about the do heroics.

if that ilvl squish does happen, then gosh, i don't know all of us will be so close to HP, ilvl 450 and ilvl 550 gear stats wont seem to differ much. which in turn will make me wonder, "was it worth spending hours in progression to kill bosses? when my HP and another person who doesn't raid much, his HP are almost same?"

Most of these ilvl squish lovers r BC fans, and they most like stopped raiding (hell, even stopped playing) years ago. Their time was then when BC was new, time changed, they failed to grasp it. And, their is no fucking way any one can do any thing to make them happy. Thing in past that was golden, can't be brought back to their former glory.

Its natural, new expansion, new content, new power lvl. if its a choice between big number vs small numbers, i prefer big. big on every thing, damage i do or damage i take. i enjoy moments like this "Holy cow! i just did a 140k Arcane Shot crit!" that makes it fun for me!

Though many ppl already stated, these squishy fans, keeps shouting soloing wont be affected. its because in their mind old raid is just raids of lvl 60 or below. they failed to consider raids above that lvl. if this ilvl squish happens. for LK 25 man, u will truly need 25 man, good luck to u finding 25 ppl for ur achiv. runs for that mount u want. and raids above LK? u can safely forget it. You may think that's good for socializing, but it isn't. Most ppl who love to raid does them when they r current content. they don't want to go back to old raids, as their is nothing for them.

enjoying the content u say? its fun when u r progressing. but once u have established a strategy its just just the next step u can't wait to pass. Ultimately for every raid, seeing content is for first few times. then its a matter of rewards in terms of gear. And if that gear doesn't have significant power jump in term of stats than a fresh 90, it kills the meaning of raiding.

[Magpai]

Maybe it takes them more time and effort to balance the game with large numbers. They have to analyze billions of pieces of information, smaller numbers and reduced stats would likely make their job easier. Also, the numerical difference in people's performance/output are greater the larger the numbers are given even minor upgrades.

Balance and scaling are all relative, so this is all wrong. They could multiply all the numbers by a billion or divide them and it would be just as easy.

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Ok lets see, at 532 ilvl my hunter has 500k+ HP

now i see a hunter below 300k, i know he isn't 90 yet or just hit 90

if i see a hunter with 350k+ hp i know he is getting some 5 man heroic gears

if i see a hunter with 400k+ hp, i know he has some lfr gear

if i see one with 450+ hp, i m sure he is doing normal progression

if its 500k+ i know he is doing heroics or about the do heroics.

if that ilvl squish does happen, then gosh, i don't know all of us will be so close to HP, ilvl 450 and ilvl 550 gear stats wont seem to differ much. which in turn will make me wonder, "was it worth spending hours in progression to kill bosses? when my HP and another person who doesn't raid much, his HP are almost same?"

What if the item squish had the effect of dividing everyone's HP by 1000?

Your 532 ilvl hunter would have 500+ HP.

If you see a hunter below 300, you know he isn't 90 yet or just hit 90.

If you see a hunter with 350+ HP, you know he is getting some 5 man heroic gears


Do you see where this is going? It's all relative. Making *all* the numbers bigger or smaller by the same factor won't change how you measure up relative to other players or to bosses.

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I never realized how bad the problem actually was until I saw this. If the jump 25n-25h is almost 1 billion health for T15, imagine for T17 at level 95...

Why exactly is a 1 billion health difference bad? What number is acceptable? What's the cutoff? And why? Why is it ok to go from 990 thousand to 1.747 million, but not 990 million to 1.747 billion?

[aeonfluxx]

getting new gear after a "squish" will still be an upgrade it terms of survival and dps, you just wont see jumps of 2 or 3k at a time.......in BC you got a new piece of gear with 6 more int on it and you knew it was better, same concept here, it will just reel the huge numbers in, maybe even shift focus away from who's doing 120k and who's doing 140k and allow you to enjoy your raiding more, and focus more on the mechanics of the fights instead of focusing on your "number", which i feel is the problem with 1/2 of WoW's pop not killing Horridon....they get lost in the long list of mechanics and focus on thinking higher dps will win out

[PenguinChan]

I'm for the item squish, but is anyone else worried about the % boosts / modifiers we have now? I'm talking about things like % returns / steals, % damage and the like. Hopefully Blizzard doesn't under-shoot them or over-shoot them on their increase / decrease.

[Magpai]

I'm for the item squish, but is anyone else worried about the % boosts / modifiers we have now? I'm talking about things like % returns / steals, % damage and the like. Hopefully Blizzard doesn't under-shoot them or over-shoot them on their increase / decrease.

Anything based on a percentage will still have the same relative effect.

[Rabidwhale]

Some players have more hp than raid bosses did in vanilla. I mean Ragnaros only had 1,099,230 I think it is time for the squish.

[Edranuz]

The item level squish MIGHT take place next expansion. - Ghostcrawler Interview
I know it is most likely gonna happen but where does it say it is confirmed?

[PenguinChan]

Anything based on a percentage will still have the same relative effect.

Of course the effect will be relatively the same, that's obvious. What will change is how much damage / health / stat is gained, loss, or returned, as there are reasons certain % modifiers are lower than they have ever been. I mean 2% health return is a lot when you have 300k health, but much less if you have 30k. It's things like that which worry me.

[Ericprydz]

I am 100% for the item squish personally. It takes them more time each tier to balance things out because of inflation and having to rebalance certain previous tiers content just because stat inflation is way out of control. They will surely have a buff in older raids so player level = power beyond what their gear says they can do outside of the instance which means people should stop arguing that point as a negative. Lots also seem to forget that the Blizzard staff is very large atm because they pulled many many team members off another game to help get World of Warcraft where it should be (has been in the past). And that is another point people can stop arguing because it isn't going to take any extra resources (more than likely[99%!~]).

There is so much potential that can come from a good overhaul that the item squish will bring and people just don't realize it.

[Aquamonkey]

Balance and scaling are all relative, so this is all wrong. They could multiply all the numbers by a billion or divide them and it would be just as easy.

Straight scaling everything by a billion doesn't actually change the relation between numbers; a squish will. The pre-squish difference in ilvl for max level in the example is ~132%. The post-squish difference in ilvl for max level is ~219%. The squish actually changes the percentage difference between tiers (based on the example they gave). The reason for this is because you aren't multiplying everything at max level by a constant, it's essentially cutting off a chunk from the bottom (by removing the large jumps from old expansions). Like how 100/50 and 20/10 is 2; but if I take 40 from both, 60/10 is 6.

This also feeds into upgrades being more meaningful after the squish.

[blizzfanboy98]

if they did item squish i would just quit, that is dumb

[FuxieDK]

Rejoice... GC have just UNconfirmed itemsquish...

[Thetruth1400]

Straight scaling everything by a billion doesn't actually change the relation between numbers; a squish will. The pre-squish difference in ilvl for max level in the example is ~132%. The post-squish difference in ilvl for max level is ~219%. The squish actually changes the percentage difference between tiers (based on the example they gave). The reason for this is because you aren't multiplying everything at max level by a constant, it's essentially cutting off a chunk from the bottom (by removing the large jumps from old expansions). Like how 100/50 and 20/10 is 2; but if I take 40 from both, 60/10 is 6.

This also feeds into upgrades being more meaningful after the squish.

Best thing about this that I can see is that it might actually make gear upgrade worth it again. It's pretty sickening now that most people hold out for BiS because they're able to beat all the content with whatever mishmash they had from the last tier of raiding. To actually have upgrades be meaningful and a necessity to progress again would make this game so much more fun. It wouldn't be like it is now, "Oh, I blasted through the content in a week, nothing left to do anymore really because I'm pretty much already ready for the next tier of raiding." That model, the current one, leads to lethargy. Since upgrades don't really matter that much, there's not much point in them. To need the upgrades to continually down bosses though, that would be a strong return to the old style of game that kept people playing. One where your kills actually mattered because you progressed as a character with each upgrade.

[phenom568]

The only thing I can say about this topic is that every time I see someone say "but now we can't solo old content!", I die on the inside. It's like there's just no floor for human stupidity.

Yeah because OMG THAT NUMBER IS HIGHER THAN THAT NUMBER THE WORLD IS GOING TO END is an incredibly intelligent argument.
How many problems does it solve? 0
How many problems does it create? 1

So why do it? Why is 100,000 easier on the mind than 1M?

[Deleted]

Delete thread please, misleading title.

[Aquamonkey]

Yeah because OMG THAT NUMBER IS HIGHER THAN THAT NUMBER THE WORLD IS GOING TO END is an incredibly intelligent argument.
How many problems does it solve? 0
How many problems does it create? 1

So why do it? Why is 100,000 easier on the mind than 1M?

Yep, because Blizzard is totally going to keep pushing a solution to problems that don't exist...

[jbombard]

Yep, because Blizzard is totally going to keep pushing a solution to problems that don't exist...

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist but may at some point in time in the distant future. Basically it's preemptive damage control. By overhyping it, if it becomes a problem they can "see told ya so", if they fix it and something breaks they can say "well since you guys really wanted this, we had to break x". They are just covering their bases.

[phenom568]

Yep, because Blizzard is totally going to keep pushing a solution to problems that don't exist...

LFR, transmog (best feature in a long time but it wasn't solving a problem), item upgrades, thunderforged items, crossrealm )another example of something that created more problems than it solved), cataclysm world changes, I'm sure if I wasn't tired and almost brain dead from writing a paper earlier today I could come up with more "features" that solved nonexistent problems.

But I'm curious, what problems does the item squish solve, beyond the "my brain can't handle large numbers" one

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It's a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist but may at some point in time in the distant future. Basically it's preemptive damage control. By overhyping it, if it becomes a problem they can "see told ya so", if they fix it and something breaks they can say "well since you guys really wanted this, we had to break x". They are just covering their bases.

The very very distant future, and that's assuming technology doesn't change in that time, which it will thus making it even further into the future.

[aeonfluxx]

it would be stupid to quit playing over numbers getting smaller and easier to deal with, and i agree about people worried that solo'ing old content will still be possible, and if it isnt would it kill you to group up in a social game......i mean that would ruin the thing wouldnt it, and the squish isnt confirmed or denied.....just a good idea at this point.....one well past due

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LFR, transmog (best feature in a long time but it wasn't solving a problem), item upgrades, thunderforged items, crossrealm )another example of something that created more problems than it solved), cataclysm world changes, I'm sure if I wasn't tired and almost brain dead from writing a paper earlier today I could come up with more "features" that solved nonexistent problems.

But I'm curious, what problems does the item squish solve, beyond the "my brain can't handle large numbers" one

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The very very distant future, and that's assuming technology doesn't change in that time, which it will thus making it even further in the future.

lets just be honest 1000 is easier to deal with than 1,000,000

[phenom568]

lets just be honest 1000 is easier to deal with than 1,000,000

why? by that logic 1 is easier to deal with than 1000 so lets knock it all the way back to single digits