41 year old man walks free as judge callls 13 year old a Predator

[Deleted]

Anyone who ends up porking a 13 year old needs help(and fucking glasses lol) imo. Even when they try their best to look older(which every girl that age do around here) there is no way you can mistake a 13 year old for anything but a teenager, they will still look like kids... but even more importantly they still act like kids. I've yet to meet a 13 year old that acted anything like an adult or even an immature young adult.

It gets trickier once they hit 16-17, esp if they are out at clubs/bars(damn those fake IDs), I've been there done that when I was in my early 20s(I'm 29 in december), but a 13 year old? No fucking way.

Absolutely true.

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I find it shocking how many people here think that 13 year old kids are old enough to be completely responsible for their actions. The brain keeps on developing till mid-twenties, with the part that handles consequences being the last one complete. Yes, thirteen year olds try to act like adults, can be manipulative, liars and are often very interested in sex. But guess what? They're still just experimenting, and doing many things because they feel pressured to prove themselves and because most of them are fricking dumb. Am I saying that thirteen year olds shouldn't suffer consequences of their actions? No. Do something stupid, you get a punishment. That's called learning from your mistakes. But it's a huge gap between a full grown, even if immature, adult doing a mistake and a thirteen year old doing one. Should thirteen year olds be having sex? Not really, but they will start experimenting and that's okay. But any adult should realize that the kid is still growing and only starting to form sexual identity, and any adult having sex with them is, in my books, taking advantage of that fact. Yes, she's acting in a very sexualized manner and knows that it'll lead to sex. But she isn't yet capable of understanding the consequences of that. She knows she might get pregnant, but she can't yet comprehend what motherhood would actually do to her life.

Besides, the guy was 41; I could understand late teens, but 41? The girl stripped for him; at this point, any non-retarded adult should be able to look at her and tell that she's clearly not an adult, far from that. With make up and certain clothes, you can look much older. But naked? Get glasses, man. 13- year old might understand exchanging sex for things she can't afford, but being an actual sexual predator? No. The guy allowed a thirteen year old "pull her moves" on him and took advantage of the fact that this kid was stupid and most likely seeking acceptance from an adult. The girl was a indeed stupid and wanted something out of it, but most kids are selfish and ready to do things they don't understand. Thirteen is not an adult as much as they would like to be, and since they themselves will never admit that, it's up to us adults to remember that.

I mean... All you applied there is healthy common sense. Don't know why others can't do the same.

[Deleted]

You didn't BUT you did participate willingly at the time from what you said in aiding the breaking of the laws

So what if I did it "willingly"? I find it pretty stupid to say that I aided in breaking the law.

I thought it was cool that someone that was older(Other than my family & staff at school) was paying attention to me, first it just started out with us starting to talk to eachother and he let me sleep over at his place if I had been fighting with my parents and gone away from home afterwards and didn't want to go back, was like that for a while. Eventually it moved on to him giving me cigarettes if I asked him for it(I thought smoking was cool stupid as I was) and he provided and a bit further on he started providing me with alcohol aswell. Considered him someone I could depend upon at that point, someone I could talk to about things I wouldn't talk to my parents about, I trusted him. Some time of just doing those things he started showing that he wanted to become more intimate with me, started out with him making out with me when we were watching movies or suddenly when we were just talking, told him I was uncomfortable with it, he said he wanted me to atleast do something for him considering everything he had done for me in the past. I felt bad because of him making me believe I owed him.

Later he wanted me to do more things for him other than just making out with him, such as stripping or letting him feel me up(Wanted sex aswell but I didn't do it at that time), started feeling really uncomfortable with doing these things but still did it because he kept going back to the things he had done for me in the past and that I had to do something for him as a kind of "repayment", that I owed him it. Wanted him to like me, didn't want him to disapprove of me. He got me drunk one evening when I went over to him and told me he wanted sex and was talking about how much I owed him for what he had done for him and eventually talked me into having sex with him. Got me feeling really bad, it was painful aswell, wasn't pleasurable for me at all since he didn't let me do things that would've been for me. Happened a few times before I got really depressed about it when I realized he was just using me, wasn't able to just keep it to myself, ended up sitting and crying at school after one night at his place and then going to school in the morning, some teachers tried to talk to me but I didn't want to talk to them about it so they got the school counsellor to come and talk with me, told her what had been going on with that guy and me after we had gotten into her office. Talked to her for quite a while about what had been going on and things worked out in the end but it was a real mess in the following weeks after I started talking to her.

I was naive and stupid, I didn't know anything back then. Had someone tried that on me today I'd just go "I don't owe you anything, you never said anything about this when you gave me these things.", he had it in his mind all the time from the moment he started talking to me. Everything he did was to get me feeling more and more that I owed him.

[Sorrior]

Absolutely true.

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I mean... All you applied there is healthy common sense. Don't know why others can't do the same.

While we're on different sides I feel I should add this "Common sense isn't exactly so common"

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So what if I did it "willingly"? I find it pretty stupid to say that I aided in breaking the law.

I thought it was cool that someone that was older(Other than my family & staff at school) was paying attention to me, first it just started out with us starting to talk to eachother and he let me sleep over at his place if I had been fighting with my parents and gone away from home afterwards and didn't want to go back, was like that for a while. Eventually it moved on to him giving me cigarettes if I asked him for it(I thought smoking was cool stupid as I was) and he provided and a bit further on he started providing me with alcohol aswell. Considered him someone I could depend upon at that point, someone I could talk to about things I wouldn't talk to my parents about, I trusted him. Some time of just doing those things he started showing that he wanted to become more intimate with me, started out with him making out with me when we were watching movies or suddenly when we were just talking, told him I was uncomfortable with it, he said he wanted me to atleast do something for him considering everything he had done for me in the past. I felt bad because of him making me believe I owed him.

Later he wanted me to do more things for him other than just making out with him, such as stripping or letting him feel me up(Wanted sex aswell but I didn't do it at that time), started feeling really uncomfortable with doing these things but still did it because he kept going back to the things he had done for me in the past and that I had to do something for him as a kind of "repayment", that I owed him it. Wanted him to like me, didn't want him to disapprove of me. He got me drunk one evening when I went over to him and told me he wanted sex and was talking about how much I owed him for what he had done for him and eventually talked me into having sex with him. Got me feeling really bad, it was painful aswell, wasn't pleasurable for me at all since he didn't let me do things that would've been for me. Happened a few times before I got really depressed about it when I realized he was just using me, wasn't able to just keep it to myself, ended up sitting and crying at school after one night at his place and then going to school in the morning, some teachers tried to talk to me but I didn't want to talk to them about it so they got the school counsellor to come and talk with me, told her what had been going on with that guy and me after we had gotten into her office. Talked to her for quite a while about what had been going on and things worked out in the end but it was a real mess in the following weeks after I started talking to her.

I was naive and stupid, I didn't know anything back then. Had someone tried that on me today I'd just go "I don't owe you anything, you never said anything about this when you gave me these things.", he had it in his mind all the time from the moment he started talking to me. Everything he did was to get me feeling more and more that I owed him.

The way you feel now is good about people like that....I still almost never exoect sex(if I do and it has only happened once is when a woman outright says that's what she plans) But yeah...

And that at least to me would fall under grooming and various forms of coercion...

I think one thing I may not expound enough on is that to me at least any laws that lower the age of consent should have at least a few extra policies in place just for circumstances like yours...I again just want those who seek it to be free to do so...From the sounds of it you were coerced abd did not seek it yourself....One such thing would be a clause of the younger party having too initiate all contact.

[Aristeus]

Absolutely true.

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I mean... All you applied there is healthy common sense. Don't know why others can't do the same.

Common sense isn't a good thing, it forces you to have less interesting debates because you can't quantify fucking an 11 year old quite as easily with common sense.

[Underverse]

I think one thing I may not expound enough on is that to me at least any laws that lower the age of consent should have at least a few extra policies in place just for circumstances like yours...I again just want those who seek it to be free to do so...From the sounds of it you were coerced abd did not seek it yourself....One such thing would be a clause of the younger party having too initiate all contact.

This will only make our culture worse in the long run. A central factor in all relationships is the difference in knowledge/power/intelligence/understanding/strength/resources. An initiation is required in almost every social interaction anyone does, be it sexual or not. Initiation involved giving someone something (attention, resources, words, etc). If one does not possess those things, then they cannot initiate. Therefore the clause you mention would essentially be equivalent to an illegalization of the activity in general.

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Common sense isn't a good thing, it forces you to have less interesting debates because you can't quantify fucking an 11 year old quite as easily with common sense.

hmm I'd imagine common sense uses logic less often than logic does

[Sorrior]

This will only make our culture worse in the long run. A central factor in all relationships is the difference in knowledge/power/intelligence/understanding/strength/resources. An initiation is required in almost every social interaction anyone does, be it sexual or not. Initiation involved giving someone something (attention, resources, words, etc). If one does not possess those things, then they cannot initiate. Therefore the clause you mention would essentially be equivalent to an illegalization of the activity in general.

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hmm I'd imagine common sense uses logic less often than logic does

I can agree in SOME ways with your statement about power differences being normal(noticed it myself though they are in most cases quite fluid) but in tgus instance it is to prevent abuses of larger differences such as what Mooneye went through.

[Underverse]

I'm sorry, but based on what I've seen I can't take this at face value.

I have no biases,

I believe this is a direct contradiction. In the same post.

That's a made-up problem, Quetzl. There are plenty of emotional attachments in today's day and age, more so than ever before really. Expressing emotion overtly has been viewed as a sign of weakness in the past. All of your hopes are nothing more than that: hopes. They have no basis in reality. Sexual freedoms have never been more free either. In fact, there's not much freer you can get without getting into other problems.
You're making up problems and posing a radical solution to them, which is another red flag.

There are far fewer emotional attachments today than there were in pre-agricultural times. Monogamy is part of the reason, probably the biggest part. Expressing emotion being viewed as a weakness is a cultural effect, and has no bearing on this conversation. My hopes are less hopes and more ideals that are based in the reality that can exist. I'm not making up problems; I'm solving them. A good example of making up a problem is placing stigma on pedophilia and then acting surprised when psychological damage results.

I'm using logic just as you are. There is no one with more to logically gain from legalized pedophilia than a pedophile. Everyone else knows where to draw the line.
If that's the case, then perhaps prepubescent children are perfectly fine where they are, and not at all interested in getting into polyamorous group relationships where they can pair-bond with no innate benefit for themselves.

First, pedophiles don't exist by nature so I'm not even considering them in a list of benefits. Pedophilia is a slight perversion of innate traits that most people share.

Children are happy with what their parents and what their culture tell them. Go to the middle east. Talk with some of the more radical muslims there. They were children at one point. They developed into their culture. What one believes and desires is a product of their environment.

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I can agree in SOME ways with your statement about power differences being normal(noticed it myself though they are in most cases quite fluid) but in tgus instance it is to prevent abuses of larger differences such as what Mooneye went through.

My argument is that these kinds of abuse are largely products of a culture that stigmatizes relationships between older and younger individuals. As in, it only happens because we do not allow older people to invest emotionally or resource-wise in relationships with younger people, by law. This (paired with monogamy) automatically turns any kind of relationship into one of exploitation.

Now, that was a general statement. And it doesn't apply to all cases. But it applies to the majority.

[Destruktion]

I believe this is a direct contradiction. In the same post.

From what I've seen of you in this thread on this subject, you are obtuse in the face of counter-arguments, and so I am disinclined to take that statement at face value.
That is not bias.

There are far fewer emotional attachments today than there were in pre-agricultural times.

You are talking straight out of your ass on this one.

Monogamy is part of the reason, probably the biggest part.

Humans are monogamous by nature. Nobody is forcing anybody to get married, there is no public shame in not getting married. People just pair off, and that's it. The few oddjobs who want to go and have a polygamous relationship go on and do so regardless of what people think.

My hopes are less hopes and more ideals that are based in the reality that can exist. I'm not making up problems; I'm solving them. A good example of making up a problem is placing stigma on pedophilia and then acting surprised when psychological damage results.

They are your ideals. They are by no means the ideal.

First, pedophiles don't exist by nature so I'm not even considering them in a list of benefits. Pedophilia is a slight perversion of innate traits that most people share.

Anybody else want to chime in and confirm Quetzl's supposition that we all share traits that, when slightly perverted, become pedophilia?

Children are happy with what their parents and what their culture tell them. Go to the middle east. Talk with some of the more radical muslims there. They were children at one point. They developed into their culture. What one believes and desires is a product of their environment.

Nature vs nurture. There is a balance.

[chrisberb]

Anybody else want to chime in and confirm Quetzl's supposition that we all share traits that, when slightly perverted, become pedophilia?
.

Well, i like when a female has qualities that i find attractive. If a 15 year old had all of those qualities, I still wouldn't even engage them in conversation, i'd look for someone more my age (20s -early 30s). This would be for both legal and personal/moral reasons.

[Deleted]

Quetzl, I really think you topped yourself with this last comment.

[Velaniz]

At 40 you shouldn't have sex with an 18 here old girl for moral reasons. It could be your grand daughter.

These are moral reasons that are objectively baseless and that not everyone shares. Someone your own age could also be your sibling.

[Deleted]

These are moral reasons that are objectively baseless and that not everyone shares. Someone your own age could also be your sibling.

No one share? I'd seriously challenge that.
And in regards to the morality of it all, this is your opinion. Not to make a snarky remark but somehow it doesn't surprise you don't comprehend them.