Alliance players have a right to be angry with MoP

[Scummer]

Fact: You get to raid the enemy faction's capital city and take out their leader.

Except it's not your leader and it's not your city otherwise the Horde wouldn't be fighting for it either. At this moment in time Garrosh is not your Warchief and the Horde are rebelling against with the intent to kill him as well, Orgrimmar is his currently that's why it's a siege.

- - - Updated - - -

Where do people get TBC was heavy horde? lol

I mean, illidan was a nightelf. We were there to clean up malfurion's mess.

Because the over arching stories of the expansion were about the Blood Elves civil war and the Orc rediscovering the Mag'har which concluded with the Hellscream quest chain which didn't have an equivalent.
I'm not saying the Alliance story was bad in that expansion, the Horde story was ultimately a lot stronger and broader because of the context. In a similar way to Wrath but with the Alliance arguably in the drivers seat because of the themes.

[Deleted]

I find this point really funny because on one hand you have a lot "We don't want to be the lawful good faction" threads and then when one character does something morally greyish you have complaints that "Jaina acts like a crazy bitch"...

These complaints are quite valid, actually - whenever Horde does something reprehensible, it has its long-lasting effects that call for a redemption, be it big or small. A struggle to cleanse their image of the burden of the past is one of the major plot drives for entire faction.

When Alliance does something reprehensible, be it ethnic cleansing of Camp Taurajo or Dalaran pogrom, Alliance keeps rolling on its 'lawful good' track which in WoW developement translates into a dull nothingness. That dull nothingness is a canvas which helps exemplify each atrocity commited... but nothing else happens with it - no heavy moral issues, no questions about what values are left in Alliance following their misdeeds, no questions about identity, not even bearing witness to attempts at stomping out uneasy truth.

Blizzard made it so that "lawful good" equals "dull, stagnant, frozen in action to such an extent that it may as well have been nothingness".
But they also made it so that attempts at 'grey morality' on Alliance side are restricted to the events themselves, with no further effects or repercussions.

In short, Blizzard's WoW dev team is incapable of writing a coherent Alliance story even in the moral shades of grey so much coveted by them.

[TheDangerZone]

These complaints are quite valid, actually - whenever Horde does something reprehensible, it has its long-lasting effects that call for a redemption, be it big or small. A struggle to cleanse their image of the burden of the past is one of the major plot drives for entire faction.

When Alliance does something reprehensible, be it ethnic cleansing of Camp Taurajo or Dalaran pogrom, Alliance keeps rolling on its 'lawful good' track which in WoW developement translates into a dull nothingness. That dull nothingness is a canvas which helps exemplify each atrocity commited... but nothing else happens with it - no heavy moral issues, no questions about what values are left in Alliance following their misdeeds, no questions about identity, not even bearing witness to attempts at stomping out uneasy truth.

Blizzard made it so that "lawful good" equals "dull, stagnant, frozen in action to such an extent that it may as well have been nothingness".
But they also made it so that attempts at 'grey morality' on Alliance side are restricted to the events themselves, with no further effects or repercussions.

In short, Blizzard's WoW dev team is incapable of writing a coherent Alliance story even in the moral shades of grey so much coveted by them.

Oh may god how can anyone take you seriously when you call Taurajo "ethnic cleansing" and Dalaran a "pogrom"!?!?! You have some bias on your chin, and it keeps on dripping.

[Deleted]

You are raiding Orgrimmar, what more do you want? I'd give anything to raid Stormwind ...

[Wyrt]

You are raiding Orgrimmar, what more do you want? I'd give anything to raid Stormwind ...

Find 40 people in trade and get to it then.

[Scummer]

You are raiding Orgrimmar, what more do you want? I'd give anything to raid Stormwind ...

*You're helping the Horde reclaim their lost city

[angryplateguy]

*You're helping the Horde reclaim their lost city

Lost? To whom? Last I checked, Garrosh was sittin' pretty. He's still got the title of warchief, before that troll who lost his home to murlocs has us kill the big old orc for him. I hope he at least thanks Garrosh for keeping his seat warm, ungrateful clout.


But seriously, quit crying. Think about it from our point of view, you may have to "take a back seat" to the horde. But you're getting to go in, and run across our city and get a canon-kill on a faction leader. That's the first in all of warcraft, isn't it? Players having a hand in killing a faction leader. I mean, yes the horde helps too, in canon. But at least the alliance isn't written off as, "Held the door open, for the big strong green orcs."

We get to see voljin, our supposed to be proud leader, groveling at the mercy of the alliance. If that's not a clear sign of, "Please blizzard, stop catering and start writing your own story." I don't know what is. How do you expect the horde to take a troll who loses his home to murlocs, and grovels at the feet of the alliance, seriously? Yes, we need your help. yes he was a dick to start, no he did not need to beg and grovel. This entire expansion has been demoralizing as fuck as a horde player. I play my gnome warrior to feel proud, yes a gnome. My orc warrior feels like he's betraying his own people, at least the gnome mage is scoring a definitive win for the alliance.

[Wyrt]

But you're getting to go in, and run across our city and get a canon-kill on a faction leader.

Thrall is the only friendly NPC in the fight, so I don't think the alliance is getting the canon kill.

[Falu]

Horde are a far more interesting faction lore-wise... the Alliance came into existence as a result of the Horde, and whatever it does is directly influenced by what's going on in the Horde..

[Deleted]

But seriously, quit crying. Think about it from our point of view, ...

There's something wrong with that. I'll let you mull it over.

[seije]

sure
but first the alliance needs to get a whole expansion of kicking the horde up and down azeroth with no meaningful horde story anywhere, a new race added to both sides but only alliance gets to see the horde story to conclusion, their introduction to a zone cut and lets say velen being a major focus of the whole expansion and being "supposedly neutral" he just smites the shit out of some horde troops every now and then
at the end the alliance nukes some horde city
and then in the next expansion, the whole story would revolve around the rebel alliance faction fighting back against Varian while the horde gets to supply the rebels and get insulted for their troubles
also can't forget robot wolf instead of 2 battles!
and when all is done the horde just leaves and the alliance gets to keep everything it has gained in the last expansion no questions asked

hell where do I sign up for that?

agreed, that sounds awesome!


but seriously, I could handle all the crap the Alliance has taken from the horde if we could just get our (few) victories actually represented in game. Where the hell is Dalaran? If they can make Thrall be in 50+ places at once, I see no reason why Blizz can't implement 2 separate Dalarans: the first in northrend in its time'locked state, and the other floating above Theramore Crater. Through phasing, the horde has kept nearly every victory they've ever accomplished in WoW. Why can't the alliance keep its one damned thing it gained in MoP?

[yetgdhfgh]

If i hear the words fist pumping moment one more time i gonna punch a kitten into paralysis!

If killing our warchief, Getting to wear his shoulders you know the very symbol of horde freedom from demon influence, Get to kill our number 1 general, Prolly kill a bajillion orcs, Get a title that says You 'Conquered' orgrimmar, not withstanding you already wear a title that says you broke the horde, you get Dalaran, your faction is more united than ever, You get to have the power of the thunder king etc etc etc

[Deleted]

Oh may god how can anyone take you seriously when you call Taurajo "ethnic cleansing" and Dalaran a "pogrom"!?!?! You have some bias on your chin, and it keeps on dripping.

Jesus Christ...

Am I at the funny farm all of a sudden?

-Camp Taurajo-
>Using squads of released criminals and murderers to conduct full-scale extermination of a mostly mono-racial settlement without any human tingle while the commander who ordered such an action could sit comfortably believing his hands were clean.
>Opening a gap between squads of murderers that lead into the harshest parts of Barrens - making it so that noone who made it out from settlement alive lived to see the light of a new day - OH HOW CONVENIENT.

-Dalaran-
>Holding the Sunreaver-aligned citizens guilty of crimes commited by the select few who were already out of Alliance's and Jaina's reach...
>...and ordering Alliance lackeys to have them rounded up and sent to an enclosed area, while every form of resistance - no matter how feeble and insignificant - was meant to be punished with death on the spot, with the player as prosecutor, judge, and executioner.
>Possesions of evicted/exterminated citizens were looted and taken over by Jaina's task force.
>Expelled citizens were looted of their possesions while being led to Violet Hold.

How taking those events for what they were equals "bias"?

Or perhaps you have a DIFFERENT outlook on what took place? But please, PLEASE don't use "it was a military training ground!" and "they deserved it! Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth!" as a valid justification for these heinous acts.

[Wyrt]

If i hear the words fist pumping moment one more time i gonna punch a kitten into paralysis!

If killing our warchief, Getting to wear his shoulders you know the very symbol of horde freedom from demon influence, Get to kill our number 1 general, Prolly kill a bajillion orcs, Get a title that says You 'Conquered' orgrimmar, not withstanding you already wear a title that says you broke the horde, you get Dalaran, your faction is more united than ever, You get to have the power of the thunder king etc etc etc

Uh, pretty sure Thrall is killing your warchief and Gamon is killing Nazgrim.

But you're welcome for the help liberating Orgrimmar from your tyrant.

Killing them makes no difference if we don't get the canon kill. I could kill Garrosh any time I want already.

[Jerakal]

The alliance is pretty much guaranteed to "Win" in the end. If you can call it that. More than likely the Warcraft conflict will come to a close when Anduin is able to reach out to the leaders of the horde and broker a peace. Probably a temporary peace to combat the returning burning legion.

Anduin will rally the alliance, the horde, and all the other happy little races of azeroth under his banner, and they will defeat the legion once again. Fostering a brief trust between the alliance and the horde that may or may not lead to a lasting peace. Velen all but foresaw this shit in one of his visions.

[seije]

snip

If killing our warchief, (He's not your warchief, and you're killing him too. In fact, we don't know who's getting the lore-kill, but unless Varian shows up Deus-Ex-Machina style in a cinematic, it appears horde is getting the lore-kill via Thrall)
Getting to wear his shoulders you know the very symbol of horde freedom from demon influence (confirmed?)
Get to kill our number 1 general, (he's Garrosh's #1 general. He is your enemy. And you're killing him too.)
Prolly kill a bajillion orcs (i've killed plenty of orcs already, ones that -are- your allies. Don't see how this is a big deal.)
Get a title that says You 'Conquered' orgrimmar (with titles like "Savior of Azeroth" why would i bother with one that says i -only- conquered a measly city?Title sounds stupid, anyways.)
not withstanding you already wear a title that says you broke the horde (again, sounds stupid, and much more 'impressive' titles lore-wise.)
you get Dalaran, (where in game is this shown? Cuz I'd gladly take it and be appeased if it were actually under alliance control somewhere in game.)
your faction is more united than ever, (Through terrible storytelling, not to mention if there's no problems for the alliance, then we'll be getting even LESS attention in lore.)
You get to have the power of the thunder king, (And you have the anima golem tech.)

[Raelbo]

While any player has a right to be dissatisfied with the storyline, no one really has a right to be angry about it.

We are told that Alliance will be leading the next expansion more powerful than ever, while the Horde will have to pick itself up. I would not hold my breathe.

I just feel like you have proven why the Alliance people complaining are indeed just whining. Yes, I get it that on a very primitive level we all want our faction to be the best. But expecting that to be the case is simply immature, childish even.

Personally I have always felt like the Horde is the underdog faction in the game, and my feeling regarding MoP is that we got the raw end of the deal having to experience the shame of having a d-bag leader. On the other hand a bunch of alliance feel they got the raw end of the deal. So who is right? Neither. In all probability both factions have been treated more or less equally. Once you realise you don't need to be number one, and that sharing the limelight is actually ok, you'll be a lot happier.

[TheDangerZone]

Jesus Christ...

Am I at the funny farm all of a sudden?

-Camp Taurajo-
>Using squads of released criminals and murderers to conduct full-scale extermination of a mostly mono-racial settlement without any human tingle while the commander who ordered such an action could sit comfortably believing his hands were clean.
>Opening a gap between squads of murderers that lead into the harshest parts of Barrens - making it so that noone who made it out from settlement alive lived to see the light of a new day - OH HOW CONVENIENT.

-Dalaran-
>Holding the Sunreaver-aligned citizens guilty of crimes commited by the select few who were already out of Alliance's and Jaina's reach...
>...and ordering Alliance lackeys to have them rounded up and sent to an enclosed area, while every form of resistance - no matter how feeble and insignificant - was meant to be punished with death on the spot, with the player as prosecutor, judge, and executioner.
>Possesions of evicted/exterminated citizens were looted and taken over by Jaina's task force.
>Expelled citizens were looted of their possesions while being led to Violet Hold.

How taking those events for what they were equals "bias"?

Or perhaps you have a DIFFERENT outlook on what took place? But please, PLEASE don't use "it was a military training ground!" and "they deserved it! Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth!" as a valid justification for these heinous acts.

Wow, wow, twist it a little harder, cause it hasn't snapped yet. Your diatribe is nothing short of incendiary, and if bias were flammable, we'd be all burning in hell.

The whole point of the Sacking of Taurajo is the complementary PoV of the events. You batantly erase Hawthorne actions of let civilians go, and outright lie about the survivors to support you ill concived argument. The Taurajo survivors, along with Honor stand, founded Camp Una'fe. Hawthorne fully intented to minimize casualties, yet you demonize him entirely with complete disregard of the facts.


Dalaran, how can be a pogrom when it is an act carried by the head of state? This one starts wrong only by definition, but don't worry, you get even wrong-er.

-The Sunreavers are politically aligned with a faction that committed an act of war, on a time where there was a ZERO TOLERANCE policy.

-Only people that violently refused were put to death; Pyromancers, duelist and frosthands openly attacking the policing force: feeble and insignificant resistance my ass.

-Both Jaina and Vereesa only issue and order lethal force to violent resistance.

-Again, this was state policy against an act of betrayal (feel free to speculate on the severity), the Sunreavers knew very well they were going to be aimed as retaliation for the transgressions of the horde, they ARE horde. They are not innocent civilians, they are an elite magical force.

I'm not removing the moral dilema on these actions (that's the whole point of them) but you go out of your way to completely demonize these events and outright lie to validate your point, If that is not bias.... no, THAT IS PURE AND SIMPLE BIAS.

[Gamevizier]

Horde are a far more interesting faction lore-wise... the Alliance came into existence as a result of the Horde, and whatever it does is directly influenced by what's going on in the Horde..

that is because Horde is always the "attacking" side that savagely tries to attack alliance lands. and the Alliance is trying to push them back, but they can't beat them completely because their morality doesn't let them drop mana bombs on cities and unleashing plague on towns.

and yet they still manage to keep themselves together.

The Alliance was there long before Orcs appeared from the dark portal. Humans and Elves allied with one another to beat back the trolls and together built Dalaran. and ever since the Orcs invaded Azeroth humanity managed to beat them back, but still their morality prevented them from killing the rest of the Orcs when they were imprisoned in human camps.

Alliance is formed by several civilized factions that banded together because they share the same moral code. Horde on the other hand takes whatever ragtag bunch it can find, because their goal is survival. and the only reason Horde appears to be cooler is because their leaders and their factions have the spotlight. with the exception of Varian and Tyrande I don't see any -serious- quests regarding Velen and Draenei actions, Genn Greymane and the fate of Worgens, Gelbin and the battle of Gnomeregan (cmon! just take the damn city already! >.< the gnomeregan event was supposed to end this problem!) the council of three hammers (we don't even know what happened to Magni, and no quest explains it in detail.). even the ones we got concerning the high king has some serious problems (one of the players has pointed that out, you actually get to hate Varian rather than liking him. he just sits back and shout stuff at you and in the end gets all the credit. I mean really? is that supposed to make him likeable?)


so tell me, which one is the intresting faction again?

[Scummer]

Lost? To whom? Last I checked, Garrosh was sittin' pretty. He's still got the title of warchief, before that troll who lost his home to murlocs has us kill the big old orc for him. I hope he at least thanks Garrosh for keeping his seat warm, ungrateful clout.

Alll of the non Orcish races have been kicked out of the Horde. If they are not a part of it and Garrosh is the one in charge of Orgrimmar then it is not the rebel's - it is lost.

- - - Updated - - -

But seriously, quit crying. Think about it from our point of view, you may have to "take a back seat" to the horde. But you're getting to go in, and run across our city and get a canon-kill on a faction leader. That's the first in all of warcraft, isn't it? Players having a hand in killing a faction leader. I mean, yes the horde helps too, in canon. But at least the alliance isn't written off as, "Held the door open, for the big strong green orcs."

As it stands the canon is indicated to be Horde what with Saurfang greeting you as "more of Vol'jin's revolutionaries" and the fact it's Thrall down there and not a mix up of both factions.
The SoO is joint operation until the end where it becomes more about Thrall and the Horde recovering their identity. The ending appears to be very much tailored towards the Horde's story.