Tinker Class

[Thimagryn]

And that should really be the end of it.

Somehow, its not though....

The same way they think Tinkers are whimsical? Don't hear you stopping either though.

[Teriz]

The fact it is bs might have something to do with it.

Given every action Blizzard has done since TBC with Demon Hunters and Warlocks, and given what we know of Blizzard class design, how can we reach any other conclusion?

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The same way they think Tinkers are whimsical? Don't hear you stopping either though.

You can overcome whimsical. You can't overcome Blizzard already believing they've already put your "class" into the game.

[Thimagryn]

Except they don't? If they did, all GC coulda said was 'Demon Hunters? You mean Warlocks right guys?' and ended it all right there. But even he acknowledges them as a separate entity. Everyone does. Except a short-sighted few.

[Sukhoi]

And that should really be the end of it.

Somehow, its not though....

Because you dont know what blizzards doing. No one does. Nowhere did they say warlocks are demon hunters.

[Teriz]

Because you dont know what blizzards doing. No one does. Nowhere did they say warlocks are demon hunters.

No, they just linked up Demon Hunters and Warlocks on every level imaginable (abilities, armor, themes, talents, etc.).

Actions speak louder than words.

[Sukhoi]

No, they just linked up Demon Hunters and Warlocks on every level imaginable (abilities, armor, themes, talents, etc.).

Actions speak louder than words.

And youre still an idiot i see. Nah, when warlocks can dual weild and do viable melee dps maybe. Until then, rage tinkerbell.

[Teriz]

And youre still an idiot i see. Nah, when warlocks can dual weild and do viable melee dps maybe. Until then, rage tinkerbell.

Hunters can't do Melee, but no one believes that Blizzard would make a Beastmaster class. Why? Because we know that Hunters are the WoW version of the Beastmaster. Also having the Beastmaster ultimate sort of backs that argument.

Amazing how this logic doesn't apply to Demon Hunters.

[But I Hate You All]

No, they just linked up Demon Hunters and Warlocks on every level imaginable (abilities, armor, themes, talents, etc.).

Actions speak louder than words.

lock wear leather? duel wield swords? fight in melee? have mana burn?

only thing dh and locks have in common is the demo forum

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Hunters can't do Melee, but no one believes that Blizzard would make a Beastmaster class. Why? Because we know that Hunters are the WoW version of the Beastmaster. Also having the Beastmaster ultimate sort of backs that argument.

Amazing how this logic doesn't apply to Demon Hunters.

logic does not apply to your TINKER dream. oh Hunters have a spec called Beastmaster

[Teriz]

lock wear leather? duel wield swords? fight in melee? have mana burn?

only thing dh and locks have in common is the demo forum

They also have immolation aura, and a huge connection to Illidan. No one has mana burn anymore, since it was removed from the game.

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lock wear leather? duel wield swords? fight in melee? have mana burn?

only thing dh and locks have in common is the demo forum

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logic does not apply to your TINKER dream. oh Hunters have a spec called Beastmaster

And Warlocks have a glyph called Demon Hunting, have a demon form that uses Illidan's model, almost had a talent named after Illidan, and have an armor set named for and inspired by Illidan.

Warlocks have more stuff from Illidan than Hunters do from Rexxar.

[But I Hate You All]

They also have immolation aura, and a huge connection to Illidan. No one has mana burn anymore, since it was removed from the game.

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And Warlocks have a glyph called Demon Hunting, have a demon form that uses Illidan's model, almost had a talent named after Illidan, and have an armor set named for and inspired by Illidan.

Warlocks have more stuff from Illidan than Hunters do from Rexxar.

I love the cherry picking you do.

Okay

Lets compare

Dh and locks have in common
Metamorphosis
Metamorphosis: Immolation Aura

Missing

leather wearer
duel wield swords
melee dps
Evasion (Passive)
Mana Burn
Night elfs can't be locks

Lore wise

Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by greater society. They made a pact, long ago, to fight against the forces of chaos using its own terrible powers against it.

3 new DH npc added in cata

http://www.wowwiki.com/Demon_hunter#..._.26_abilities

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And Warlocks have a glyph called Demon Hunting, have a demon form that uses Illidan's model, almost had a talent named after Illidan, and have an armor set named for and inspired by Illidan.

Warlocks have more stuff from Illidan than Hunters do from Rexxar.

i know about the glyph http://www.wowhead.com/spell=63303/g...-demon-hunting in beta locks could tank. Metamorphosis was always named Metamorphosis. Illidan is considered Sorcerer, Warrior, Fighter, Mage, Rogue, Demon Hunter lore wise.

Lets see beastmaster WC3 Summon Bear, Summon Quilbeast, Summon Hawk, Stampede (Ultimate).....Seem like everything a hunter has in wow

[Teriz]

I love the cherry picking you do.

Okay

Lets compare

Dh and locks have in common
Metamorphosis
Metamorphosis: Immolation Aura

Missing

leather wearer
duel wield swords
melee dps
Evasion (Passive)
Mana Burn

Lore wise

Demon Hunters are dark, shadowy warriors who are shunned by greater society. They made a pact, long ago, to fight against the forces of chaos using its own terrible powers against it.

3 new DH npc added in cata

http://www.wowwiki.com/Demon_hunter#..._.26_abilities

You clearly missed the point. You could do that same type of write up that you did above for Hunters and Beast Masters. However, no one is advocating a Beast Master class because clearly the Hunter is the Beast Master of WoW. Just like the Warlock is the Demon Hunter of WoW.

For some reason, you guys don't get that.

[But I Hate You All]

You clearly missed the point. You could do that same type of write up that you did above for Hunters and Beast Masters. However, no one is advocating a Beast Master class because clearly the Hunter is the Beast Master of WoW. Just like the Warlock is the Demon Hunter of WoW.

For some reason, you guys don't get that.

ummm....you are aware that beatmaster hunters are beatmasters right? oh and hunters have all there abilities.

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I think you missed

i know about the glyph http://www.wowhead.com/spell=63303/g...-demon-hunting in beta locks could tank. Metamorphosis was always named Metamorphosis. Illidan is considered Sorcerer, Warrior, Fighter, Mage, Rogue, Demon Hunter lore wise.

Lets see beastmaster WC3 Summon Bear, Summon Quilbeast, Summon Hawk, Stampede (Ultimate).....Seem like everything a hunter has in wow

[Teriz]

Lets see beastmaster WC3 Summon Bear, Summon Quilbeast, Summon Hawk, Stampede (Ultimate).....Seem like everything a hunter has in wow

The Beast Masters creatures weren't permanent. They're abilities, not creatures you tame, and they would disappear after awhile, and you could summon several at once.

Hunter pets don't work like that..

[But I Hate You All]

The Beast Masters creatures weren't permanent. They're abilities, not creatures you tame, and they would disappear after awhile, and you could summon several at once.

Hunter pets don't work like that..

Dire beast does so does Stampede

[Teriz]

Dire beast does so does Stampede

Dire Beast is closer to what the Beast Master could do, but it still isn't like the BMs abilities.

Need I also remind you that the Beast Master was Melee DW, not ranged? I also doubt he was wearing mail armor.

[But I Hate You All]

Dire Beast is closer to what the Beast Master could do, but it still isn't like the BMs abilities.

Need I also remind you that the Beast Master was Melee DW, not ranged? I also doubt he was wearing mail armor.

in Vanilla, Survival was the "Melee Hunter" instead of Beast Mastery

[Teriz]

I love the cherry picking you do.

Okay

Lets compare

BMs and Hunters have in common
Stampede
Name of spec

Missing

leather wearer
duel wield axes
melee dps
Summon bear
Summon quillbeast
Summon Hawk

Lore wise

Beast Masters are Melee fighters who are lightly armored, and summon a variety of beasts and spirits to fight for them.

See how easy that is?

[But I Hate You All]

I love the cherry picking you do.

Okay

Lets compare

BMs and Hunters have in common
Stampede
Name of spec

Missing

leather wearer
duel wield axes
melee dps
Summon bear
Summon quillbeast
Summon Hawk

Lore wise

Beast Masters are Melee fighters who are lightly armored, and summon a variety of beasts and spirits to fight for them.

See how easy that is?

alright let me help you out a little bit.


BMs and Hunters have in common

Stampede
Name of spec
Summon bear = Summon pet and dire beast
Summon quillbeast = Summon pet and dire beast
Summon Hawk = Summon pet and dire beast
duel wield axes since hunters could duel wield axes up up till mop
melee dps Survival was the Melee Hunter in Vanilla.
Hunters CAN wear leather armor and do up till 40

Missing
leather wearer

Lore wise

Beast Masters are Melee fighters who are lightly armored, and summon a variety of beasts and spirits to fight for them.

Hunters are stalkers in the wild, living on their knowledge of survival and skill with a bow or rifle. They are deeply in tune with nature and some of its mightiest beasts are their allies.

Glad I could clear that up for you

[Talen]

It's never been an issue of can or can't. I've even said before, if Blizzard wants to do that, then that's perfectly fine.

It's always been a question of why.

Why?

Because there is NO contradiction in lore.
Because Warlocks already share a lot of the DHs design space
Because Blizzard does not want to increase class homogeniety
Because the design direction Blizzard has taken for the past 5 or 6 years is to merge the two class concepts into one - a move which has accelerated in MoP.
Because a lot of the work done for the GoDH and the Warlocks history and reputation wrt to tanking means that a lot of the work to move it fully into DH territory has already been done
Because doing this will likely help shore up the popularity Warlock class by tying it into the DH "cool" factor.

If the only thing you are doing for Warlock 4th spec is adding melee abilities, dual wield and allowing use of Warglaives, then you've satisfied absolutely nothing of interest about using the Demon Hunter title.

Anything and everything the DH has - including lore and flavor - can be ported over to the Warlock class with little, if any, difficulty.

Do you not agree that by making Demon Hunters a part of Warlocks, you're hurting Demon Hunter lore, such as having Spectral Sight?

No. I don't.

Such lore could be bettered explored - a LITTLE better - if it were a standalone class. But I don't see anything inherently contradictory between the two paths.

If we simply assume that DHs were the result of how the use of demonic magics evolved amongst the Night Elfs, and that it is - as a result - very different even though it springs from the excatr same base, then all differences in lore and tradition are accounted for. Sure, NElfs DHs tend to ritually blind themselesv and gain spectral sight; but even leaving aside the limitations imposed by game restraints and design on any class, there's nothign in lore that even suggests that such a ritual is necessary to gain a DHs powers. At best, you might argue ti necesssary to becoem a member of whatever order they are in.

No, they do not.

Yes. They do. The two concepts have been merging for the past 5 or 6 years as Blizzard gradually mines the DH theme. And that is a process that is accelerating. Warlocks have gotten the Betrayer Regalia, the Glyph, Blizzard has spoken about its desire to restore a Warlcoks tanking feel, and the Green Fire questline created a very direct link between the two classes.

But there is no evidence of that in lore.

The Barbarian (Fury Warrior) isn't a trained soldier (Arms warrior) either, but that doesn't stop Blizzard usinf the same class to represent the two archetypes, nor does it stop them respeccing into an entirely different archetype either.

In lore...a Demon Hunter will always be a Demon Hunter and a Warlock will always be a Warlocks because there is no respec option for those NPCs and lore characters. But there is neither any lore which states that the two cannot draw their power from the same source. That one cannot simply be focussing that power differently. That one may not simply be a different style of fighting using that power.

[Demon Hunters and Warlocks have different backgrounds. Spectral Sight is a defining aspect of Demon Hunters, and Warlocks simply don't go through this ritual. Can they? Sure they can! But that isn't what Player Warlocks do, therefore they are not Demon Hunters.

And you are making the assumption that this ritual is necessary for gaining the power of a DH. Even in the RPGs, that isn't necessarily the case.

Warlocks have the possibility of becoming demon hunters. The requirement would be that they go through the same blinding and tattooing rituals to become one.

Respeccing is always an option.

EJL

[Teriz]

alright let me help you out a little bit.


BMs and Hunters have in common

Stampede
Name of spec
Summon bear = Summon pet and dire beast
Summon quillbeast = Summon pet and dire beast
Summon Hawk = Summon pet and dire beast
duel wield axes since hunters could duel wield axes up up till mop
melee dps Survival was the Melee Hunter in Vanilla.
Hunters CAN wear leather armor and do up till 40

Yeah, Quilbeasts don't exist in WoW. Also Hunters can't summon birds that shoot lightning, or bears that can teleport. Not to mention that these summons end after about a minute.

Not the same ability.

Hunters could dual wield, but that wasn't their primary method of DPS. Also, Beast Masters didn't use ranged weapons at all.

By the time a Hunter gets stampede, they're wearing mail armor.

Hunters are stalkers in the wild, living on their knowledge of survival and skill with a bow or rifle. They are deeply in tune with nature and some of its mightiest beasts are their allies.

So the fact that one is melee and one is ranged only matters when we're talking about Demon Hunters and Warlocks?