Rogue PvE Compendium - the do's and dont's [6.2]

[Kael]

Thanks to Lachtobi's work, Crimson Tempest has been proven useful for Combat AoE rotation - updated the guide. Still it's not worth using for Assassination, the question is still up for Sub (anyway Sub aoe is very lackluster, so if a fight needs absolutely aoe, you should go combat or assassination).

Sub's CT vs. Eviscerate favors CT more than it does for combat (it doesn't have to get around RvS). If combat should use CT, so should sub.

[Coldkil]

Ok, but the point is that Sub isn't made for aoe, i wouldn't play it if a strong aoe is needed. Better switch to offspec.

[Chancie]

I'm going to summarise my rotation and would appreciate any inputs.

Combo builder is Backstab and keeping up SnD, Hemo and Rupture

Pull: Stealth - Premed - SnD - Hemo - Ambush - Rupture
Wait for FW to finish then Shadow Dance and Shadow Blades together
Wait for FW to finish then Vanish - Ambush
Use Prep and Vanish again after FW is done and Ambush
After that I use SD and SB whenever it is up - saving SB until there is no FW buff on me

Default in simcraft is to not use shadowblades and shadow dance together. Simc is using Shadowblades on the pull and then about 10 seconds later uses shadow dance

[Deleted]

have question about combat gemming : currently using shadowcraft i get : red - agi+haste ; yellow - haste , but when i click reforge and optimize gems it changes: red - agi; yellow - agi+haste and then again when i reforge, optimize gems it switches back to pure haste.

Shadowcraft says ill do around 1k dps less using agility for red and agi+haste for yellow. (will i suffer more dps loss ingame during encounters if i go for agility ? or shadowcraft is right and difference is marginal ?)

Vasca-Kazzak EU

[Kael]

If you're ping-ponging between two stat weights each time you re-gem, it means the ideal (for Shadowcraft's report) is somewhere between those 2 options. More agility gemming than full haste and less than full agility should yield the highest result, in theory, for single target.

I'm not sure how values change as you increase # of targets for cleave (I'd suspect haste pulls ahead because you need to build Bandit's Guile and flurry slows the process, but I really do not know), but I also suspect that, if you have issues with playing under AR/SB, the full value of haste is hard to utilize, since you'll get closer to GCD-capped (or cap, depending on lack of T15 4p and haste values).

[Felarion]

Hey guys, got a question.

Here's my rogue http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rgarion/simple

As you can see i play combat, and stacked haste like crazy. At what point of gear/haste i reach sweet "cata like" spot when i don't have to wait for energy to use sinister strike for ages ?

[ymirsson]

"waiting for ages" is very subjective. Stack haste until you feel comfortable and then, stack more. Because it is the best stat per point for combat (most of the time)

[Matutin]

I've just got AoC and some decent combat weapons. I was using sin since I came back to WoW (a day before 5.4 was out) and really liked it, didnt bother with combat until I got the fistwep from the 2nd boss. Sunddenly since I got AoC, both ShC and MrRobot told me to go full haste. What do you guys think about going full haste with a latency no lower than 200ms?

[crazymack]

Great guide, I just want to point out that stat priorities change depending on ilvl but mainly if you have the legendary gem/cloak. I suggest putting somewhere in your guide a reference to shadowcraft (or other tools that can measure stat weights) especially if they are raiders with an are in guild progression.

- - - Updated - - -

I've just got AoC and some decent combat weapons. I was using sin since I came back to WoW (a day before 5.4 was out) and really liked it, didnt bother with combat until I got the fistwep from the 2nd boss. Sunddenly since I got AoC, both ShC and MrRobot told me to go full haste. What do you guys think about going full haste with a latency no lower than 200ms?

shadowcraft have variables that allow you to account latency. I suggest you try tweaking those and see then what it said.

[straws]

Great guide, I just want to point out that stat priorities change depending on ilvl but mainly if you have the legendary gem/cloak. I suggest putting somewhere in your guide a reference to shadowcraft (or other tools that can measure stat weights) especially if they are raiders with an are in guild progression.

- - - Updated - - -



shadowcraft have variables that allow you to account latency. I suggest you try tweaking those and see then what it said.

Been using it for ages and never noticed that! , Doh!
Checked my combat sim for 250ms latency that I have , 18k dps loss from the default value of 30ms, checked the sub sim 0 dps loss. As if I need more reasons to stay away from combat.

[Deleted]

hey i didnt want to create new thread so gonna ask here.
I was recently considering change from pure haste gems to agility, so my sub spec could gain some more dps.
Wanted to check on shadowcraft how much combat will suffer on such change and i notice that agility amount in shadowcraft is different from agility in game.

i.imgur.com/NP4jKTF.jpg cant post links

Is it normal ? does this have any impact on shadowcraft calculations ?

[Deleted]

Hey, could you give me some advice on when the best time to use the troll haste racial is?
I've never really raided as a troll so I'm not 100% sure when to use it.

I'm playing combat and I'm currently sitting at 52% unbuffed haste (113% with slice'n'dice)

[Black Jack]

Hey dont really post on the forums much but i have a few questions. First of all what is energy pooling and what specs need to use it? Second what is the rppm trinket and whats currently better to use assasination or combat

[Datenshi]

Hey dont really post on the forums much but i have a few questions. First of all what is energy pooling and what specs need to use it? Second what is the rppm trinket and whats currently better to use assasination or combat

ok so i'm gonna break it down in your 3 questions
Energy pooling is basically letting your energy regen so you can use more abilities when you want.
only assassination uses energy pooling as far as i know in this manner:
when you have 5+ cp you pool your energy untill you have around 60+ (but do not cap your energy!) then you envenom and because you pooled your energy you can use 2-3 mutilates while you have the envenom buff active so you get a lot more chance on poison procs then you pool your energy again and repeat

rppm trinkets were trinkets in throne of thunder who's proc chance increased with haste but they changed that now so this is no longer the case and rppm is basically gone

as to which spec is better between assassination and combat is a bit trickier question to answer :
combat is very strong single target and cleave wise but is very depended on your weapons and trinkets, if your weapons for assassination and combat are the same AND you have the Assurance of Consequence trinket from the sha of pride combat is probably better if you can play it correctly and have low ms since it's quite a spammy spec imo.
For assassination it's still good for single target (though less than sub and combat if all are played optimally) and has the best mass aoe but that shouldn't matter in boss fights but it is a lot easier to play than the other 2 specs and is punished the least if played sub-optimal

hope this helped a bit and if other people see something wrong with it please feel free to correct me

[Kael]

rppm trinkets were trinkets in throne of thunder who's proc chance increased with haste but they changed that now so this is no longer the case and rppm is basically gone

RPPM Trinkets (regarding rogues) are pretty much dead with respect to haste, but RPPM is still a live mechanic - rather than having a cooldown (Internal Cooldown - ICD procs), they're intended to proc an "average" of X times per minute (most un-haste-affected trinkets now list how often per minute they proc - the old haste-influenced RPPM trinkets used to increase rate based on your haste). To note, other RPPM procs DO still scale with haste (legendary meta, legendary cloak).

All of your real interest in how haste and RPPM interact is basically "where does haste rank in my stats," for which you should probably consult Shadowcraft and Simulationcraft.

[Black Jack]

Yes it was quite helpful thank you! Is sub top spec right now?

[Senftw]

Yes it was quite helpful thank you! Is sub top spec right now?

Yeah, but Sub also suffers from a lack of AoE and positional requirements. Sub is only really the best spec on a 100% single target fight, and combat is really close anyway + blade flurry is amazing on most fights, so alot of rogues are defaulting to combat, in SoO.

Honestly though, pick your spec based on the fight, a good rogue will play whatever is the best for the situation.

Can you cleave? Combat for sure.
Is it mass extended aoe? (tortos for example) Assassination.
Does it need to be burned down super fast in a short window of time? Sub.

[Shaken]

Hi !
According to many guides, mastery is a little bit ahead of crit for sub spec. However, I saw many sub-specced rogues on armory who are favorizing crit.
Your thoughts ?

[Coldkil]

Because mastery is not ahead - crit and mastery are more or less on par, but while mastery affects finishers damage and it's highly dependant on how you play and how many finishers you can dish out, crit instead provides a more fluid rotation because of its synergy with HaT.

[Shaken]

OK so there's no "way to go", it's just a choice regarding the playstyle. Thank you !