Holy Paladin 5.4

[Kyuuseishu]

I know, I'm just using it to go along with Juicyjonny's use of raidbots as a source and correct their incorrect data.

[Freia]

Disc priests have passable dps, ok utility and below average output. If you can't outheal a disc priest when 2 healing, please reroll your class, you are doing hpallys wrong. Terribly wrong. Think the only time I allowed a disc priest to outheal me was when the guild tried 4 healing Iron Juggernaut.




They have reliable absorbs, but utterly unreliable heals. You know, the class of spells that actually push health bars up when they do drop. Also the same reason why druids are far superior a raiding healer compared to disc priests(and pretty much everyone else), you know, their ability to restore health far surpasses the need to actually prevent health bars from dropping.

Ok utility. Is that a joke? Seriously you really should stop trying to actually pretend like you know what you are talking about if you think disc has "ok utility". You especially want to lay off the "reroll now" and other remarks implying my lack of skill. So they have a hard time getting the health bars back up? Ok that is why you pair them with a druid for the ultimate 10m healing comp. Disc priest to provide absorbs to keep up the effective health of the raid(spirit shell has always been better in 10m than 25m) and a druid for the burst healing. Seriously everything you are posting shows how little you actually know. Anyone who types out that absorbs are not more valuable than actual healing has seriously not been playing this game or is delusional.

[Juicyjonny]

Sigh, read his post again, carefully. You seem to have some glaring comprehension and jumping-the-gun issues.

1) He's saying he is only taking into account the parses from past month rather than the past 2 months because the latter overlaps with ToT.

Capiche?


2)We can't be the best when Druids are so broken at this current point.


3) This is because, for Paladins, a deviation of ~50k HPS is a far lower overall percentage of their total healing, compared to say, Disc Priests where even 40k ish hps is a bigger chunk of their throughput.

Remember, the pure throughput of a pally is very high, a lot higher than the disc priest, and that has to be taken into account.

1) If he's taking into account anything after the 5.4 then why did he say that we were 2nd? I am not jumping the gun what so ever, I am taking everything said and comparing it to the data provided to me. Past week, past 2 weeks, past 3 weeks, past month does not vary that much and still correlates with what I am saying. AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT INCLUDE 5.3.

2) Why do you have this delusion that I am trying to argue for paladins to be the best healers? You think the point is to always keep Hpallies on top? It's to keep it fair... The idea is not ALWAYS TO SEE A HPALLY at #1. The idea is to either nerf a class or buff a class.

3) .....you're saying a 30% deviation plus or minus is BETTER than a 23% deviation plus or minus????? You do know that the smaller number is better in regards to consistency, right???? You know what, let's keep statistics and mathematics off the forum; makes people think too much.

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Disc priests have passable dps, ok utility and below average output. If you can't outheal a disc priest when 2 healing, please reroll your class, you are doing hpallys wrong. Terribly wrong. Think the only time I allowed a disc priest to outheal me was when the guild tried 4 healing Iron Juggernaut.




They have reliable absorbs, but utterly unreliable heals. You know, the class of spells that actually push health bars up when they do drop. Also the same reason why druids are far superior a raiding healer compared to disc priests(and pretty much everyone else), you know, their ability to restore health far surpasses the need to actually prevent health bars from dropping.

Again, you keep thinking that comparing yourself to your guilds disc priests means anything... You are oblivious to what is going on here.

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Ok utility. Is that a joke? Seriously you really should stop trying to actually pretend like you know what you are talking about if you think disc has "ok utility". You especially want to lay off the "reroll now" and other remarks implying my lack of skill. So they have a hard time getting the health bars back up? Ok that is why you pair them with a druid for the ultimate 10m healing comp. Disc priest to provide absorbs to keep up the effective health of the raid(spirit shell has always been better in 10m than 25m) and a druid for the burst healing. Seriously everything you are posting shows how little you actually know. Anyone who types out that absorbs are not more valuable than actual healing has seriously not been playing this game or is delusional.

I have been agreeing with this statement the entire time. No one else understands the importance of absorbs other than what Lucyrotten posted earlier.

[Memory]

What is the stats priority in PvP, at moment? Haven't been playing in ages.

[Lucyrotten]

What is the stats priority in PvP, at moment? Haven't been playing in ages.

This thread has been very PvE focused. You might find more info in the PvP forums.

[Bythelights]

Disc priests have passable dps, ok utility and below average output. If you can't outheal a disc priest when 2 healing, please reroll your class, you are doing hpallys wrong. Terribly wrong. Think the only time I allowed a disc priest to outheal me was when the guild tried 4 healing Iron Juggernaut.

Can I outheal a disc priest when 2 healing in 10 man? depends on the fight and how many you are 2 healing at this point. Overall I would say its fairly even for how we heal them atm. I would give a slight edge to the disc priest. I crushed him healing tot with some amazing parses. The absorb difference between us is just too rediculous atm. Disc is doing about 75-80% absorbs atm and i do 20-25% yeah ok.

That is the problem and the key lies in how much damage is going out compared to your current gear levels. In the beginning the threshhold for me to beat him was around more then 140k hps. Lately this has moved upwards to around 180k hps. This trend will only increase further as we all get more gear. Disc hps is untouchable he will always get his and I won't get shit unless a lot is left over. It is a current broken state of healing. It is beyond me how Blizzard wants disc to behave this way. 10 man pallies are half of the shielding they were before and disc is the same or a bit more .... yeah ok fuck blizzard.

Last week I finally felt useless on some fights because of this and told our druid who is resto/moonkin he can 2 heal with the disc for farm I'll go ret even though I never get gear because I need an entire different set of gear compared to the druid. Yeah another way we get shafted and druids get everything they want this teir. Oh except a balanced (absorb healing system), correction a (absorb disc system since they are the only real contributors anymore). If our guild 3 heals Iron Jugg again the resto druid will be guarenteed dead last even though everything about that fight favors them because of absorbs. Pospospos you are fairly competent but sometimes your posts make it seem like you do not understand much. If you can out heal your disc priest 2 healing general I'll shake your hand sir and next track down your disc priest and beat the shit out of him cause he is retarded.

Maybe our guild will man up and 2 heal every farm heroic except thok this coming week. That would make things fun again but these game developers and their broken systems again encourage you to use 3 for easy fast farm. Hey stand in whatever you want dps and tunnel with 3 healers don't use defensive it is all good you only care about parsing when all that matter is progression atm. I'll parse when content is fully cleared.

Oh yeah farm is gonna be fun in a few weeks on the clears while working on Heroic Garrosh. Maybe I can hit 80-85% overhealing by then. Oh wait you can solo heal the last fight of this teir... wrong again priests can solo heal the last fight of this teir. So I will either be benched for heroic Garrosh but not likely as we do not have many players and some of them are terrible at mechanics. More likely do sub par ret dps because I'll be in old heroic tot gear, did get a 566 2 hander though, and bring the same utility as I do when I play holy. Or maybe dps gear levels will be so high by then I will heal with the disc priest and do tons of overhealing and /dance most of the time. Great.. fun..teir.

Toxic posting habits, such as saying "track down your disc priest and beat the shit out of him cause he is retarded" will not be tolerated. Learn to say what you want to in a civilized manner, rather than posting like this. -Krekko

[mofobagins]

Bythelights - You are also blowing this out of proportion...Hpally is great in 10man but no, we will never beat a disc unless they arent trying very hard. I dont think anyone but you is complaining about hpally is 10man in this entire thread. If you are that upset by having to get ret in ToT gear, then it sounds likes more of a guild issue.

So i asked this question a few pages back in this thread but it never really got answered. Are any heroic 25man hpallys going for the 7.1k haste bp with int gemming, especially with the sha trinket? Or are most just hitting the 3506 bp and getting as much mastery as possible? Ive looked at a few of the top hpallys and they are going for just the first bp but i thought i should ask in here to get more feedback. Thanks.

[Lucyrotten]

Bythelights - You are also blowing this out of proportion...Hpally is great in 10man but no, we will never beat a disc unless they arent trying very hard. I dont think anyone but you is complaining about hpally is 10man in this entire thread. If you are that upset by having to get ret in ToT gear, then it sounds likes more of a guild issue.

So i asked this question a few pages back in this thread but it never really got answered. Are any heroic 25man hpallys going for the 7.1k haste bp with int gemming, especially with the sha trinket? Or are most just hitting the 3506 bp and getting as much mastery as possible? Ive looked at a few of the top hpallys and they are going for just the first bp but i thought i should ask in here to get more feedback. Thanks.

There are a lot of pallies doing all kinds of thing with no/1st/2nd/3rd breakpoints, mastery/int/artful gemming, and SH/EF/(SS) builds. This tier has allowed for a far greater range of playstyles to emerge. I rolled with a 2nd bp/int/ef build for a while and it was pretty good. But with the way gear is coming and being in a different place in progression every week it's very hard to make direct comparisons from week to week.

There are some really bad builds, like the full mastery/SH one I ran today on a flex Malkorok because I couldn't be assed to regem for flex but that same build is really good for Thok. I've looked at any number of viable options for the fights I have coming up but I feel like it will end up being EF with 1st or 2nd bp, I haven't decided which and yes I have the heroic sha trinket.

[Deleted]

There are some really bad builds, like the full mastery/SH one

I am running full mastery, after I checked going for the first haste breakpoint. Since it tends to give me more output, then when going for the haste which costs 2-3% mastery.
So I am abit wondering where u get the info that its bad.

[Deleted]

Raiding 10man...running the 45% haste BP with ~35% mastery and 14k spirit (Sha/Blackfuse Trinkets)...

[Hypasonic]

I am running full mastery, after I checked going for the first haste breakpoint. Since it tends to give me more output, then when going for the haste which costs 2-3% mastery.
So I am abit wondering where u get the info that its bad.

Think you misquoted him there, atleast I hope so as Mastery/SH Build isn't bad at all it's just bad for some fights specifically the one Lucy mentioned. I run with both build's but I only ever need to go EF when doing Malk, I just stay as SH/Mastery build for every other heroic fight. I was gemming more for intellect for the EF build, but since we're progressing Thok heroic I've gone for a more full-on mastery build, but works well enough for both spec's really (for me atleast)

[Deleted]

Think you misquoted him there, atleast I hope so as Mastery/SH Build isn't bad at all it's just bad for some fights specifically the one Lucy mentioned. I run with both build's but I only ever need to go EF when doing Malk, I just stay as SH/Mastery build for every other heroic fight. I was gemming more for intellect for the EF build, but since we're progressing Thok heroic I've gone for a more full-on mastery build, but works well enough for both spec's really (for me atleast)

Ahhh I see. Then not did I only misquoted him, I misunderstood him aswell. Many thanks for the clarification.

[Deleted]

Raiding 10man...running the 45% haste BP with ~35% mastery and 14k spirit (Sha/Blackfuse Trinkets)...

raids 10 man, got 2 warforged bis trinkets after 5 weeks..

[Deleted]

raids 10 man, got 2 warforged bis trinkets after 5 weeks..

This starts to get really annoying I'll try to remember to log off with two crappy trinkets ^^

[Deleted]

This starts to get really annoying I'll try to remember to log off with two crappy trinkets ^^

haha, we're all just jelly ;D

[Xs]

haha, we're all just jelly ;D

Jelly doesn't even begin to describe it!

[Lucyrotten]

I love Holy paladins and Holy paladins culture.

Holy paladins and holy paladin culture think you're pretty swell too. <3

[Juicyjonny]

I am running full mastery, after I checked going for the first haste breakpoint. Since it tends to give me more output, then when going for the haste which costs 2-3% mastery.
So I am abit wondering where u get the info that its bad.

Do you know what the difference between Lucy's post and your post?

Lucy has logs that shows us a full range of trial and errors between her setups while you are just blatantly stating that 'this is actually better'.

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I love Holy paladins and Holy paladins culture.

HPally for lyfe.

[Lackjester]

I've had trouble with most of my calculations due to bogus information from outdated sources as well as many obscure Blizzard oddities...

Would anyone be willing to tell me what the most recent spell power coefficient(s) for EF might be? If I'm not mistaken, it changes depending on haste breakpoints due to the extra ticks, but the % gain per SP remains the same -- correct? Any formula(s) required for stat-related calculations would also be greatly appreciated. (ie. how many stats do I actually get out of my gems and socket bonuses after buffs?)

[Memory]

This thread has been very PvE focused. You might find more info in the PvP forums.

Thanks, got my answers there.