Jaina

[Budong]

I expect things will only go worse before they get better for Jaina. I'd rather not see her die but it certainly seems like Blizz intends for her to continue down this angry dark road for some time.

[Drikkink]

I expect things will only go worse before they get better for Jaina. I'd rather not see her die but it certainly seems like Blizz intends for her to continue down this angry dark road for some time.

Like I said earlier, I expect her to either die or be gravely wounded very, very soon. Probably not a boss fight, but a cutscene or scenario.

[Sett]

She's probably going to be busy with the Kirin Tor duties. Channel her anger into studying or taking care of people. It'd be helpful in her case.


I wonder why Varian is keen on sending people to Theramore if it's nothing but ruins. And full of arcane cooties.

[Celista]

I wonder why Varian is keen on sending people to Theramore if it's nothing but ruins. And full of arcane cooties.

Varian wants to build a garrison there, so I'm assuming Theramore will be somewhat rebuilt.

[Deleted]

See, first bregtann says dismantle means something else entirely from what it seemed to me. If that's what she meant then ok, but it sure as hell didn't look like it to me and to a lot of others with the way she was smiling at the thought. In my view what she meant was KILL. I guess we'll just disagree as to what her intention was, and I guess Blizz left it open to interpretation intentionally.

Pretty much agree with this. Blizz deliberately made the cinematic controverisial and open to interpretations, knowing we'd be arguing like this.

The fact remains though that on one hand you have what Jaina actually says "Dismantle the horde!"
On the other hand you have that "she just looks evil to me", in other words, the editing of the cinematic.
Anyone judging Jaina has to consider what she says (and does) primarily. Not whether they think he way of tilting her head indicates evil or her getting a reaction close-up edited in is proof that she actually wants to exterminate half of Azeroth.

However, judging BLIZZARD'S FUTURE INTENTIONS, now that's an entirely different matter. Like I've said before in these forums, I have been convinced since Theramore that Jaina came back from Northrend "infected" with some kind of corruption, which still hasn't turn her into a villain, but eventually will.

Two different things.
What was discussed here was what actually happened in Org, and basically judging Jaina for what she says ("dismantle the horde plox"), not specualation what might eventually happen to her in the future

Then Drikkink goes the complete other direction and agrees with me as to her intention, but then justifies her desire for genocide.

Like I said, you guys are weird. But at least, like Jaina, you're interesting

Different people have wildly different opinions, often incompatible with each other. Don't blame me for what someone else say and vice versa. Welcome to the Internet!

[Darkstrike]

jaina is awesome , one of the best characters in WoW , if some1 should die that would be the worthless malfurion and the little @@ anduin

[Andromedes]

She wanted to destroy the whole Orgrimmar.. Why didnt you complain back then? I know its hard to see, that someone in fantasy game has realistic personality.. Just try be more empathic and you will see, that her beahvior is understandable.... She sacrificed much for peace that didnt work. She let die her own father, the whole Theramore get bombed.. I would really want to see you, how would you behave. I doubt that you would be pacifistic and do nothing about it.

[Xilurm]

If Jaina dies, Sylvanas needs to die too. We either go all out peace or not.

[Deleted]

Agreed, she needs to be put to rest.

Poor thing, the atrocity that she has become... such a waste of a character.

[bdew]

Poor thing, the atrocity that she has become... such a waste of a character.

The worst thing... they derailed her character and made he look bad, just to make Varian look good in comparison. /facepalm

[Raysz]

Why do people keep throwing around the word "evil"?
She wants to disband the faction that has caused countless (thousands, tens of thousands?) of Alliance deaths, destroyed and conquered Alliance land, and seems to not have any intention of paying for it or facing justice for their crimes.

What the hell kind of "Evil" is that?



This is the whole point of her character change.
She's realized that was a completely nonsensical and naive perspective.
She's continually worked for peace between the factions and the Horde continuously makes matters worse.

Her attitude is because it ISNT JUST GARROSH.

It wasn't Garrosh who plagued Southshore and slaughtered the farmers and civilians of Hillsbrad farms. That was Horde.
It wasn't Garrosh who started the Warsong lumber camp and allowed it to continue to push at the Night Elven Borders, that was Thrall and the Orcs.
It wasn't Garrosh who authorized Gilneas to be plagued, or okay'd the use of the Valkyr in conquering Andorhal and slaughtering the farmers of the new western plaguelands, that was Sylvanas.
It wasn't Garrosh who created the plague and tested it against humans and dwarves to begin with, that was the Forsaken and Horde.

To pretend that Garrosh is somehow the source of all the crimes the Horde have committed is simply naive, she's realized that now. She doesn't ask Varian to slaughter the Horde, she says that this is the chance for him to forcibly disband the group that has caused Alliance suffering for decades.

That's a great summary of how Jaina became what she is today. I don't think she's evil, she just became bitter and for all the right reasons.
I do hope that Blizz doesn't turn her into some kind of renegade character for the next x-pac where she'll be a raid boss corrupted by a higher power.

She's one of my favorite characters in the game and it's good character development.

[Deleted]

It seems to me, that Anduin has taken over her role of being the peacekeeper und negotiator with the Horde. I guess they will bump heads somewhere down the road...

[Mifuyne]

They need a crazy person for the follow up lore into the next expansion.
Alliance going to Gilneas, marching into Tirisfal Glades as well.
Jaina sets off to seek what is hidden beneath the lake and uses the focussing iris to sacrifice alliance soldiers to .. yes, open up a nice portal.

[Gwiez]

Her face-heel turn makes sense, with Theramore being utterly destroyed and her closest friends being killed, with the aid of some in Dalaran. She got wholloped with like eight kinds of betrayal there. Think about what happens in real life when a city is destroyed by outsiders, many people take a turn for the retaliatory.

That being said, I was personally uncomfortable with the purge of Dalaran quests. With the possible exception of Velen (who?), Jaina's probably the most personally powerful alliance leader. It will be hard for Varian to keep her in check. I don't want to see "corruption" be the reason for her change in attitude. A person doesn't need demonic influence in order to go from conciliatory to retaliatory.

[hrugner]

It seems to me, that Anduin has taken over her role of being the peacekeeper und negotiator with the Horde. I guess they will bump heads somewhere down the road...

With how things are going, it'll be a race to see if they bump heads before he turns evil because bad stuff happened to him.

[Xilurm]

You see, I don't get this. You're all whining because there is no so much Horde vs Alliance. But when we have characters like Jaina all you're saying is that she needs to die.

Make up your fucking mind will you?

[Eucep]

Frankly put, this feels like the usual 'Blizzard has no real skill at cinematic and storywise direction', they are good at the idea behind the story, but at how to convey it, they fall short again and again. Good writing 'dismantle the horde', bad conveyance 'use acting suggesting she is on the point of hatred explosion'. Why, because they want to make Varian shine more.

[hrugner]

You see, I don't get this. You're all whining because there is no so much Horde vs Alliance. But when we have characters like Jaina all you're saying is that she needs to die.

Make up your fucking mind will you?

Alright, I propose we make a forum topic to address this forum topic so we can come to a consensus before we talk about it.

[Deleted]

Wait so first people are complaining that there is not enough war in World of Warcraft, now, you are complaining about a woman who is finally showing some lust for war? Seriously, Jaina is the best thing to happen to the Alliance in a long time.

[Budong]

Why do people keep throwing around the word "evil"?
She wants to disband the faction that has caused countless (thousands, tens of thousands?) of Alliance deaths, destroyed and conquered Alliance land, and seems to not have any intention of paying for it or facing justice for their crimes.

What the hell kind of "Evil" is that?



This is the whole point of her character change.
She's realized that was a completely nonsensical and naive perspective.
She's continually worked for peace between the factions and the Horde continuously makes matters worse.

Her attitude is because it ISNT JUST GARROSH.

It wasn't Garrosh who plagued Southshore and slaughtered the farmers and civilians of Hillsbrad farms. That was Horde.
It wasn't Garrosh who started the Warsong lumber camp and allowed it to continue to push at the Night Elven Borders, that was Thrall and the Orcs.
It wasn't Garrosh who authorized Gilneas to be plagued, or okay'd the use of the Valkyr in conquering Andorhal and slaughtering the farmers of the new western plaguelands, that was Sylvanas.
It wasn't Garrosh who created the plague and tested it against humans and dwarves to begin with, that was the Forsaken and Horde.

To pretend that Garrosh is somehow the source of all the crimes the Horde have committed is simply naive, she's realized that now. She doesn't ask Varian to slaughter the Horde, she says that this is the chance for him to forcibly disband the group that has caused Alliance suffering for decades.

I ask this, just how in the hell do you propose to forcibly disband the Horde without killing them? You think if Varian walks up to them, that group you saw in the cinematic who were ready for a fight if it came to it, and tells them they will disband that they're just gonna roll over and do it? Of course she's telling him to kill them, there is no other logical interpretation the more I watch the video and think on it. Jaina isn't stupid and she's not THAT crazy to think Thrall and Voljin and the rest will simply walk away from the Horde after all they just went through to save it. They would rather die first, and that's exactly what she wants.

As for all the Alliance suffering, be thankful for it. The Alliance wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the orcs coming through the portal, and wouldn't exist in it's current form without the Horde. Do you think Azeroth was some peaceful paradise before the orcs showed up? Of course not, the human's fought each other, they fought the trolls who fought the elves, the high elves tried to blow the planet up, it was a mess. It was the orcs and later the Horde that was the catalyst that forged the Alliance, and it was Garrosh that unified them like never before. If you want to say the human's suffered because of the orcs then ok, they lost the first war badly and were mostly decimated. But they came back stronger and united the other races, something that had never happened. Instead of seven human kingdoms and the other races living in various states of war and peace, you now have a unified force. When the throw down happens between Azeroth and the Legion, I'd much rather have the battle hardened Alliance over what was before the portal. Think big picture before lamenting too much about Alliance suffering.

As for Jaina being evil. I don't really believe in true evil that much. Different perspectives may seem evil to opposing views. I do think Jaina is unhinged from the events of Theramore. Mana bombs and watching your friends die will do that to you. She has become dangerously paranoid and anyone who condones genocide has to be considered psychopathic. If those qualities make you 'evil' then ya, she's evil. I prefer to say the Jaina we knew died with Theramore. THIS Jaina is a broken twisted version of the original, and her 'disbanding' of the Horde sounds an awful lot like a 'final solution'. Varian sees it, as he continuously ignores her and strives for peace. Would you consider him naive and nonsensical?

- - - Updated - - -

Wait so first people are complaining that there is not enough war in World of Warcraft, now, you are complaining about a woman who is finally showing some lust for war? Seriously, Jaina is the best thing to happen to the Alliance in a long time.

From a story telling perspective, I agree.