[SPOILERS]it's official, jaina is evil!

[Yarathir]

Well, I don't know if anyone said unrealistic. Her epic freaking moral implosion is probably all too realistic. It's just not admirable, not likeable.

Eh, a lot of people called it unrealistic, stupid, unwarranted. And I don't think all characters have to be likeable or admireable either.

[Tirilka]

I like new Jaina. She is believable, and her behavior is not entirely unjustified. The events of past two years (which I won't recount, others have done that already many times) took a toll on her. And I think even if there were some thoughts in her head about more peaceful approach, they vanished at the moment of Thrall's sudden spite towards the Alliance.

[Belisaurio]

People can change from day to night if the things don't go the same way that they want. With his father deaths, she remained completely the same person than before, because she wanted to end the conflict killing his own father (or accepting Orcs to kill his father). After Theramore, she is just different. Some people would like her, some people would hate her, but that's something good for players: more movement between good and bad heroes = more action for us.

+1 Blizz, just wait if She become a new raid boss to take loot, or someone like Sylvanas that walks from Black to White without any problem.

[Lynneiah]

Well, I don't know if anyone said unrealistic. Her epic freaking moral implosion is probably all too realistic. It's just not admirable, not likeable.

BTW, is there anything more insane than using Sylvanas as the moral template for Jaina? That's like saying "well, nobody complains when Tony Soprano does it, why should Ned Flanders start killing people?" Because people expect better from Flanders. They expect better from Jaina, because of who she was.

You try having your homeland destroyed, forced into exile, be indirectly responsible for the death of your father, have your new homeland destroyed by the people you sacrificed your dad to save, then be betrayed by even more people you trusted, and see how well YOU do with rational decisions.
Look up 'Break the Cutie' on TV Tropes. It's a thing that exists in storytelling, as a form of what us writers call 'character development'. That's where characters aren't static automatons but actually react and change to the things happening to and around them.

[Yarathir]

People can change from day to night if the things don't go the same way that they want. With his father deaths, she remained completely the same person than before, because she wanted to end the conflict killing his own father (or accepting Orcs to kill his father). After Theramore, she is just different. Some people would like her, some people would hate her, but that's something good for players: more movement between good and bad heroes = more action for us.

Changing from a night's sleep is also possible, but for Jaina, Theramore was the drop that changed her. Then, she even tried to forgive the Horde, and to her knowledge, she had her trust betrayed again. So there was actually an active reason for her to feel how she did and does. I personally would hate it if they made her a raid boss, especially if she became one before Sylvanas (priorities, guys!) just because she doesn't like the Horde.

[CDWarden]

I like how Jaina is evil for suggesting a totally rational thing. In a War, when you win, you crush your enemy.

What a delightful pre-19th century opinion.

But you're right. After all.. look at post-WW2. AFter the war, the Allies crushed their enemies completely. I mean, you haven't actually SEEN any living Germans or Japanese since 1945 have you? That's right cause we crushed them. They're exctinct. Also, look at Berlin or Tokyo on Google maps. Total barren wastelands of scorched earth.

[Xecks]

yep im going to be just perfectly fine when some terrorist kills my friends and townspeople with a freakin nuke. i absolutly wont want to dismantle the terrorist org. nope .

[Yarathir]

You try having your homeland destroyed, forced into exile, be indirectly responsible for the death of your father, have your new homeland destroyed by the people you sacrificed your dad to save, then be betrayed by even more people you trusted, and see how well YOU do with rational decisions.
Look up 'Break the Cutie' on TV Tropes. It's a thing that exists in storytelling, as a form of what us writers call 'character development'. That's where characters aren't static automatons but actually react and change to the things happening to and around them.

I go down the list of all Jaina sacrificed to help the orcs and the Horde and all she got in return, and then look at how she reacted to it in the end, and how she acts now, and I just don't comprehend why anyone could find her behavior unjustified. Like.. at all.


Apparently, if say, your family is murdered, you should remain stone-cold and not care at all. If you harbor feelings of anger, hatred.. desire to get revenge, you're inevitably super-evil and need to be executed.

[Lynneiah]

What a delightful pre-19th century opinion.

But you're right. After all.. look at post-WW2. AFter the war, the Allies crushed their enemies completely. I mean, you haven't actually SEEN any living Germans or Japanese since 1945 have you? That's right cause we crushed them. They're exctinct. Also, look at Berlin or Tokyo on Google maps. Total barren wastelands of scorched earth.

What a delightful pre-19th century definition of 'crushing'.
Crushing doesn't mean the same as eradicating. You crush an enemy by rendering them completely powerless, like, for example, no longer allowing them to field armies.
After WWI, the Allies crushed their enemies by disbanding the Austro-Hungarian empire, and imposing very strict sanctions upon Germany.

[soulyouth]

So much Jaina hate, she is 100% a fucking awesome character, the way she acts is how someone who has gone through what she has should act, fucks sake do any of you even know about Kinndy Sparkshine ?

Too many blind horde fanboys that hate her because she is alliance.

[Lynneiah]

I go down the list of all Jaina sacrificed to help the orcs and the Horde and all she got in return, and then look at how she reacted to it in the end, and how she acts now, and I just don't comprehend why anyone could find her behavior unjustified. Like.. at all.


Apparently, if say, your family is murdered, you should remain stone-cold and not care at all. If you harbor feelings of anger, hatred.. desire to get revenge, you're inevitably super-evil and need to be executed.

It's not like we, as humans, do evil things like sympathise with a father who had his daughter murdered when the murderer gets to leave jail early and he's outraged about it. I mean, what an evil monster that father is.

[Yarathir]

It's not like we, as humans, do evil things like sympathise with a father who had his daughter murdered when the murderer gets to leave jail early and he's outraged about it. I mean, what an evil monster that father is.

Apparently, those people are all evil for sympathizing with the father, and the father evil for wanting at least a longer jail sentence. EVIL GUYS!


We need to feed on their blood -- those monsters!

[Grubjuice]

After WWI, the Allies crushed their enemies by disbanding the Austro-Hungarian empire, and imposing very strict sanctions upon Germany.

that worked out so well too! that war ended all wars!

[Yarathir]

that worked out so well too! that war ended all wars!

And the Alliance knows that it'd backfire.. how? For some, the priority is to disable the Horde and make sure they will never become a threat again. They don't have fourth wall-breaking information about what the consequences were when it happened in real life.


This is the whole problem. People grab real world conclusions as reasons for characters not to do something, but those characters shouldn't even be aware that those conclusions could, and would likely happen.

[Lynneiah]

Apparently, those people are all evil for sympathizing with the father, and the father evil for wanting at least a longer jail sentence. EVIL GUYS!


We need to feed on their blood -- those monsters!

We must slaughter anyone who is not 100% good in their thoughts, intentions, and actions, NO MATTER THE CONTEXT!

[Stormdash]

I don't know who would have a problem with what she said if it wasn't for the fact that in context, she wasn't and couldn't have been talking about "the Horde" in an abstract, she was talking about the specific very few members of the Horde with whom she had an actual personal relationship that had at all prior points transcended the faction war, people she had fought beside -- that she had written them off completely and they were no better than Garrosh for her. That isn't "justified", it isn't good, it has no positive attributes at all.

Thrall, of course -- this total disregard is not where "Tides of War" left things, period. It's either a plot error or Jaina has completely come unglued since the end of that book. Yes, she and Thrall both understood nobody would be whispering about them being cozy over again, but Thrall and Kalec, together, talked her down from a "... and the women and children, too" bloodbath. It's flat out incoherent that she would suddenly be okay with Varian forcing Thrall into a "break up the Horde or die" choice right on the spot; especially since, not for nothing, he had just tried to do what she wanted him to do and put the coup de grace on Garrosh.

And Baine... again, did "Tides of War" even happen? Either 'no', or Jaina has just completely fallen apart at the seams morally since that book ended. She understood completely the danger he put himself and his people in by having warned her of the Horde's march in the first place, and in point of fact, while that warning ending up costly (on both sides), it also saved the lives of who knows how many Theramore civilians. But, no, Varian, march across the room and "dismantle the Horde", i.e. give an ultimatum to these people who we all know would rather die fighting if we put them in a corner like that, their lives mean nothing to me now.

Pick your poison -- poor continuity editing for the character, or she is just... gone, damaged goods, a Sylvanas mirror if nothing else.

[Yarathir]

We must slaughter anyone who is not 100% good in their thoughts, intentions, and actions, NO MATTER THE CONTEXT!

Ain't that right?



Ugh, sometimes I hate this fanbase so much.

[Velshin]

The fact that one of the major difference between the two factions cinematic is Jaina's moment = giving me the impression that it's indeed foreshadowing for something really big related to Jaina Proudmoore in the near future.

[Lynneiah]

Ain't that right?



Ugh, sometimes I hate this fanbase so much.

It's like they don't pay attention or anything, but form opinions regardless.

[Deleted]

jaina talks about "dismantling" the Horde but she has conveniently forgotten that it was tried before.

Lorderon attempted to totally dismantle the horde through the use of internment camps, what happened? Eventually they broke free tired of being chained up.

It doesn't work. In the end all wars end in a diplomatic accord unless you go fully genocidal, and the reality is that the Horde is too big for the alliance to hold down.