Nerf arms warriors thread

[Baracuda]

Easiest "fix" to this "problem" (it's not a problem to begin with), is to go back to old style talent trees. This applies to ALL classes/specs. Arms does NOT need shockwave just like ret does NOT need a fear/slow just like BM never needed readiness or A LOT of the talents available to it etc.etc.

Hell, the new talent system is the SOLE reason for the massive jump in CCs available to everyone as well as unecessary tools being given to a bunch of classes and specs.

That said, most warriors that'll be sitting at higher ratings a couple of months from now will be doing exactly that, sitting. Once everyone is geared out, warriors are going to be nowhere near as powerful as anyone from the PTR could tell you. There are even now classes that are more bursty that are going to be even burstier by comparison once fully geared due to terrible arms scaling (which is what was supposed to be addressed by the damage buffs; ergo arms is only going to be dropping further and further in sims/dps/burst comparative to other classes as the season/raid progression goes on).

We lost throwdown and piercing howl isn't always taken, not sure how that is more CC.

[Pua]

I saw a suggestion somewhere else to let disrupting shout and mass spell reflect replace pummel and spell reflect if warriors spec into it, which seems fair enough.

Aye, that was me on the other thread.

Ultimately, the changes to warriors have made them a different animal in this season and something has to give. Two interrupts, two reflects and a stun are already too much before you also throw in two charges and Intimidating Shout. If you're a caster and you're up against a warrior, by the time you've faked everything you're probably dead.

The snag is the multiplied effect of some generally small buffs.

Bladestorm being decent makes Bloodbath viable due to its CC immunity, and they tie up well.
Intervene breaking roots makes Mass Spell Reflect effectively a freebie as you don't need Safeguard.
No shields for Shield Wall or Spell Reflect help PvE, but make them no brainers in PvP - just push 'em.

Effectively this all adds up to warriors being able to pressure freely with more damage, more control and more resilience than they had before. You can't nerf Defensice Stance or Second Wind because they'll be far less powerful when people are geared, and you can't lower damage because that'll make warriors have no pressure in addition to hitting them in PvE. That said, warriors can now pressure every minute with Blood-Storm rather than every three minutes, and this makes a big difference, but most classes still have cooldowns with which to deal with that assuming they play intelligently.

What frustrates me most is the Shield Wall change because, quite honestly, it makes no sense. Yes, I get that warriors were sacrificing so much in the way of damage when they used it, but that's why we got Die by the Sword; can anyone seriously say we need two free-of-cost defensive cooldowns? Hell, it's times like this when I start to really miss WotLK when I could go sword and board, use Shield Block and Revenge-spam thanks to Unrelenting Assault.

Ultimately, this thread is why I hate the new talent "system", I hate the new approach to PvP and why I hate playing a warrior. All three have had the fun and depth gutted out of them, with my skill-rewarding warrior being replaced with a mindless damage bot that's either too good, or no good.

Worst of all, there seems to be a growing sense in the community that if a warrior isn't a free kill, the class is broken. I'm not sure where it came from, but I still remember shaking my head at that idiot Zumio who kited a warrior to death in beta, never went under 90% health while doing so, then cried Second Wind was overpowered. In short, he believed that any chance of a warrior killing him should be stamped out.

Is that really what we've got in the PvP community?

Keep it.

[Deleted]

warriors started the Xpension godlike, then they got nerfed to shit. now that their more competetive again (buff well needed imo) you whine. If you think warriors are to OP atm you should practise playing your class beter m8. i play Hunter, Rogue, Disc and DK. i don't see a problem with warriors, their fine as they are.

[Deleted]

Very valuable points made there Zellviren. More people need to look in-depth to the class like you and myself instead of the standard "OMG I GOT KILLED BY A WARRIOR, NERF IT NOW SO I CAN BE TOP BY FACEROLLING"

[Baracuda]

warriors started the Xpension godlike, then they got nerfed to shit. now that their more competetive again (buff well needed imo) you whine. If you think warriors are to OP atm you should practise playing your class beter m8. i play Hunter, Rogue, Disc and DK. i don't see a problem with warriors, their fine as they are.

I can understand hunters not having a problem with warrs this patch, they haven't had a problem with them in a long time...

[Terahertz]

Very valuable points made there Zellviren. More people need to look in-depth to the class like you and myself instead of the standard "OMG I GOT KILLED BY A WARRIOR, NERF IT NOW SO I CAN BE TOP BY FACEROLLING"

This is coming from both a rogue and monk player. Warriors can be extremely annoying due to their mobility and hard hitting ability. When I play my rogue, the warrior tunnels me to death without me being able to do anything about it because of my shit mobility. Whenever I try to go offensive, the warrior either leaps away or uses die by the sword/shield wall. It helps that evasion is now 100% dodge, but it doesn't help the bleed damage and overpower spam. All in all, warriors are still doing INSANE damage on my rogue (75k slam through feint?).

Then again, when I play monk (this is from experience) It's like it's impossible for me to do, at least playing as WW monk that it. Disable, Fists of Fury, Disarm, roll away etc. It's literally impossible for the warrior to ever kill me. I noticed this when I was playing with a 2100 warrior and my friend (ironically facing the same players with both warriors which was ww monk/hpal) and they could not ever get the monk below 60%, even with 18~ sec CC chains. Meanwhile the monk was doing insane damage because the warrior could barely move or hit him due to parry.

[Deleted]

Then again, when I play monk (this is from experience) It's like it's impossible for me to do, at least playing as WW monk that it. Disable, Fists of Fury, Disarm, roll away etc. It's literally impossible for the warrior to ever kill me. I noticed this when I was playing with a 2100 warrior and my friend (ironically facing the same players with both warriors which was ww monk/hpal) and they could not ever get the monk below 60%, even with 18~ sec CC chains. Meanwhile the monk was doing insane damage because the warrior could barely move or hit him due to parry.

Well, yes, if the WW wants to say away - he will. There is no way a warrior will take down a WW that wants to live. But if you go head to head with a warrior and his cooldowns, you die. If you don't have a healer that is. This is true for 5.4 only, since in 5.3 I could play with my navel and kill warriors at the same time.

Luckily, the game is not balanced around 1v1 duel situations. A good warrior nowadays, will eat most classes for breakfast.

[Tya]

No class needs 7 different <= 1min cooldown ways of stopping a spell landing.

[Deleted]

I think arms damage is fine, it's just the amount of anti spellcaster tools they have, it feels even worse than gag order

[Nyaldee]

Ppls who keep repeating "we've had it all last patch" underestimate how minor things can change a gameplay:
1. Reduced cd on stance change effectively reduced vulnerability time by 50%.
2. Free root clear allowed to pick mass spell reflect or vigilance.
3. Burst lowered through the roof profiting warriors a lot.
4. Removed shield requirement from all defensive abilities allowing warriors to keep beating on target under heavy preassure and generally reducing error margin by a lot.

Atm problem is that switching to warrior from almost every melee class is a heavy upgrade in at least couple of dmg/cc/mobility/survivability departments. Still i would give it a time till gear scales up, since the the more ele/rogue/mage/ret/sp burst will scale the more vulnerable warriors will become to being cought in battle stance or generally bursted down in short window of opportunity. Imo gear scalling may fix the problem on it's own, if not then i would target stormbolt as the first thing to nerf (30 yard stun on most mobile melee ingame).

[gutnbrg]

As a monk they are still easy as crap to kill.

WW monks are insanely OP in 2s, I know eveyrone will say who the fck cares about 2s...but im just saying, ive gone up against a few and they are literally unkitable and just keep up constant pressure...

[Whitepaw]

I think arms damage is fine, it's just the amount of anti spellcaster tools they have, it feels even worse than gag order

So, casters should get nerfs for us to nerf warriors. Right now, the only two melee classes able to kill casters regularly are DK's and warriors.

Nerf those two melee classes, and it's World Of Casters even more.

[Mars_Trueskills]

So, casters should get nerfs for us to nerf warriors. Right now, the only two melee classes able to kill casters regularly are DK's and warriors.

Nerf those two melee classes, and it's World Of Casters even more.

Are you serious? Rogues rape casters...

*edit, and WW monks, ferals.

[lolpve]

Warriors are balanced in some circumstances but against casters the class is totally broken and you have to be the most myopic 1500-rated moron not to grasp this. They have far better caster lock-down than rogues have ever had, which is a niche warriors have never needed to fill especially since they do more melee damage than anyone else.

A lot of the nerf-buff-nerf-buff situations would go away if blizzard stopped trying to give warriors a bit of everything and put them back to the playstyle they had in TBC. This applies to many other classes too.

[meathead]

This is coming from both a rogue and monk player. Warriors can be extremely annoying due to their mobility and hard hitting ability. When I play my rogue, the warrior tunnels me to death without me being able to do anything about it because of my shit mobility. Whenever I try to go offensive, the warrior either leaps away or uses die by the sword/shield wall. It helps that evasion is now 100% dodge, but it doesn't help the bleed damage and overpower spam. All in all, warriors are still doing INSANE damage on my rogue (75k slam through feint?).

Then again, when I play monk (this is from experience) It's like it's impossible for me to do, at least playing as WW monk that it. Disable, Fists of Fury, Disarm, roll away etc. It's literally impossible for the warrior to ever kill me. I noticed this when I was playing with a 2100 warrior and my friend (ironically facing the same players with both warriors which was ww monk/hpal) and they could not ever get the monk below 60%, even with 18~ sec CC chains. Meanwhile the monk was doing insane damage because the warrior could barely move or hit him due to parry.

wait a minute-are you actually saying warriors counter rogues atm?wow who would have thought!news flash warriors have always "supposed to be" a counter class to rouges.alot of people forgot this or do not know this,because warriors have been shit most of the time since wrath.are you asking for rogues buffs?do you want it so a warrior cant hit you at all?thats what it sound sliek your asking?or maybe monks need a big fat nerf if warriors get even drop you below 60%.or maybe warriors need more buffs so they can get your monk down to 50% .

think what you just said "Whenever I try to go offensive, the warrior either leaps away or uses die by the sword/shield wall." thats what a smart warriors is supposed to do,right?armour and hit points all have been nerfed for warriors,why not use you d-cds when another player trys to burst you down?as a rogue open up on another player and pop all your cds on him.if you cant drop him vanish and live to fight another day.remember "rend" does not stop a rogues from vanishing like it use to "one of the dumbest changes i have ever seen".

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Warriors are balanced in some circumstances but against casters the class is totally broken and you have to be the most myopic 1500-rated moron not to grasp this. They have far better caster lock-down than rogues have ever had, which is a niche warriors have never needed to fill especially since they do more melee damage than anyone else.

A lot of the nerf-buff-nerf-buff situations would go away if blizzard stopped trying to give warriors a bit of everything and put them back to the playstyle they had in TBC. This applies to many other classes too.

"A lot of the nerf-buff-nerf-buff situations would go away if blizzard stopped trying to give warriors a bit of everything and put them back to the playstyle they had in TBC."

o how i wish this would happen-lets see here -stronger MS then what it is now more Armour and hit points then any other class in game.un nerfed rage-rage from damage delt and damage received,10 sec spell reflect,self heals at any amount of hit points.i could keep going but it makes me sad to think how much warriors have lost since BC.

what i find funny is that alot of people in here are trying to get warriors nerfed because they are not a free kill anymore.but why o why do you not cry and ask for nerfs when casters -rogues and dks are the only classes that any GOOD rbg team would take?since rbgs were introduced back in cata,how many seasons did the top rbgs stack arms warriors?i cant remember 1 season.if you wanted to rbg as a warriors you had to tank and now teams dont even want that.proof is in the pudding stop crying and L2P.locks,mages,rogues,dks were all mandatory for rbgs,warriors were left out.now that warriors are actually are viable maybe they get a spot on rbg teams again.

[Dumaw]

Was getting hit by 40k ice lances yesterday playing my warrior alt, full tyrannical in D stance. So im guessing all the QQ is because people want warriors to be free kills for Mages for ever and ever? Is that it?

[PPN]

Aye, that was me on the other thread.

Ultimately, the changes to warriors have made them a different animal in this season and something has to give. Two interrupts, two reflects and a stun are already too much before you also throw in two charges and Intimidating Shout. If you're a caster and you're up against a warrior, by the time you've faked everything you're probably dead.

Its this. I dont mind being killed in the end or just lose to a warrior in the end cause of "the crowd chose you" if during the game i can say...okay i did something and i messed it up. But when i play my fire mage or SP i do all game almost nothing. By the time you fake casted all the stuff ot reflective shield went down, or you came out of stun or the fear finished im more or less dead. At that time the first CDs already come slowly back. so he just jumps quickly behind a pillar where he turtles for 10 sec then the shit starts over again. Great!

Also im always trying to Setup a kill, with force trinkets cc-chains, lil burst phases and so on. What i see now when i play to warrior, no matter what you do he trinkets it immediatly just Pops some CDs and in some way it just works out well fine anyway for him.

SO while i try to play smart, get some window for burst and cc he just smashes down on me mostly mindlessly popping some abilities. Like yesterday when we play to resto druid- warrior. He doesnt even know what we do cuase we didnt even cast. He is just mindlessly lining up reflective shields and just lolling around.

[meathead]

Plenty of classes had this problem. As far as RBG, besides DK's or Rogues no other melee were wanted. Additionally warriors were still doing fine in certain comps and weren't nearly as bad as WW monks, for e.g.

Now they're a bit overtuned compared to other classes which is why people are whining, though people whine a lot.




Not really. In any case they're not going to touch warrior damage for PvE reasons, so they'll most likely tone down defensive stance for Arms only. If not they'd probably make you do less dmg in D-stance than you do now so you either go defensive or go damage and not both. This is where most of the complaints are coming from, whether you like it or not.

wtf are you even talking about?dks and rogues always had spot on rbgs teams.GOOD teams stacked casters with a dk and rogue.you say other classes got left out,which ones?pallys went heals so did druids and priests.what other classes are there?we both know warriors and warriors alone are the one class that was not wanted for rbgs "except for tanking and thats done now as well".

OP has a rage cost now they did that so warriors cant sit in d-stance and do max damage.i think its a L2P issue with you.

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Was getting hit by 40k ice lances yesterday playing my warrior alt, full tyrannical in D stance. So im guessing all the QQ is because people want warriors to be free kills for Mages for ever and ever? Is that it?

yeah they already buffed skill lance by what 20%-lmfao.

[GodEmperor]

Remove disrupting, bring back Gag order. I just read it in the arena forums, apparently casters prefer getting Silenced over getting interrupted.

Also, Deep Wounds spread has to be nerfed. It's where most of the QQ is coming from.

[Deleted]

4 pages of;

Non-warriors: Please nerf warriors, they are retarded atm.
Warriors: stfu noobs l2p warriors are fine.

Me: Fix warriors please. Every class needs to have some weak spots. Warriors have none. Atleast none that hurts their gameplay severly.