Government Shutting Down

[Deleted]

About 35 years ago. The hippies screwed it all up. They could have done it.

Ahahah that was great. I agree fully

[bergmann620]

Yes, but make sure to leave out the percent of the population that didn't approve of obamacare because they wanted universal healthcare. Because selective number choice is a great way to mislead.

Shouldn't those people be pissed at the Democrats for not voting for universal care? You know, when they could have passed anything they wanted?

[obdigore]

Negotiations the Republicans have refused to enter for 6 fucking months!

Ssshhh...

once people get their mind made up that 'so and so' is bad, they don't often change.

this is why we should take every congressperson out back and feed them to the wood chipper (except mine!) idea is so rampant in the country.

[bergmann620]

Negotiations the Republicans have refused to enter for 6 fucking months!

I know, right? Of course, it's only bad when they do it. In my life experience, being fucking stupid in response to others' being fucking stupid, is, well, fucking stupid.

[Deleted]

I'm fine with the system. Democrats are the ones freaking out.

No, you see. What's happened in last few days, is not part of "the system". So if you agree with what the republicans have done in here, you're not fine with the system at all.

[Olo]

1) Democrats obviously didn't want a single-payer system, otherwise they would have voted for one.

Many democrats wanted/want a single payer system. The ACA was meant to be a compromise. It originated in a conservative think tank, was championed by Nixon and later Newt Gingrich as speaker in the 90s, and finally implemented by a republican governor. I think when it was clear the GoP wasn't going to compromise Obama should have taken his super majority and shoved a single payer system down their throats.

2) But... but... I thought this was about the ACA! In any case,

You asked.

the budget is quite obviously an issue that can be negotiated over. I haven't seen any Democrats make an offer of, say, scaled back sequestration, in exchange for the delays that Republicans are asking for

The GoP seems to have fallen in love with the sequester.

[Reeve]

Clearly, on these boards, Democrats saying "NU-UH!!" and refusing to compromise is okay.

What compromise? What are the Republicans giving? A functioning government?

[KingHorse]

It's not about my intellect. It's about your inability to not conflate your arguments.

You've confused the two separate arguments actually.

[Chrysia]

Shouldn't those people be pissed at the Democrats for not voting for universal care? You know, when they could have passed anything they wanted?

Except they couldn't. Not all Democrats sit in cushy Democratic districts, so the Democrats took the Republican health plan from 1994, tweaked it a bit, and hoped to get Republican and moderate support. However, Republicans suddenly hated this health plan, solely because Democrats put it on the table.

[Annapolis]

Delaying it and allowing Dukes employers to push their chosen religions on their serfs employees by allowing them to not insure certain services they find religiously objectionable.

I can't see past your hyperbole to see what nonconstructive point you were trying to make (or rhetoric you were trying to spread).

More on point while the ACA has a funding plan set up it doesn't mean that congress can't act to change that funding hence what the House is trying to do. Again, implementation of a bill is going to remain difficult while it has absolutely zero bipartisan support.

[Deleted]

I'll reiterate because it's been a hot second: I'm not a Republican.

The nation isn't being held hostage. 800k people aren't at work. That's what, 0.01% of the population? A lot of other shit is shut down. It's not good. That doesn't translate into a hostage situation, so you can dial down the hyperbole.

It's an embarrassing moment on so many levels. It's also extremely expensive and something you'd expect to happen in Ghana not the greatest country in the world. How the hell can you downplay something like this.

[bergmann620]

No, you see. What's happened in last few days, is not part of "the system". So if you agree with what the republicans have done in here, you're not fine with the system at all.

Well, we disagree. I think it's completely part of the system. It's the part that finally starts to get us involved. Whichever side is deemed to be the most culpable for any damages from this event will pay for it in the election, and well before then, the building pressure to restore the government will force some sort of compromise.

[frumper]

Actually, it is. You see there is a time for debating the what and how when creating laws. That time has gone. And stomping your feet on the ground shouting "nah nah nah", really is not part of the democratic process.
Man, I know they might be the guys you vote for but this isn't a football match. This isn't your team, look at things from an external perspective and you'll see you can't do anything else apart, I'm sorry to say, blaming that particular group of republicans. Sorry mate I understand it might be difficult to swallow but this time they fucked up.
It's embarrassing on an international level, expensive, useless, it creates discontent, harms the faith people have in institutions... You can't just do that.

The law is approved. They lost this one, accept it and move on.

Where does it say laws are written in stone? The republicans risk a voter backlash if they are wrong in holding up the spending bills. They are well within their power to do so, just as the Senate could, or the President. Each elected official checks the other and that results in a slow process when a majority do not agree on something. Usually they can find a compromise, but this time they seem to be at an impass. Elections are held every 2 years here. There are also ways to remove politicians from office early if the voters go through that process. Changes will happen, and the voters will remember this either way. The ironic situation would be if republicans held out indefinitely and the status quo was retained after an election. I think the pressure will be too much and they'll reach some agreement they can both call at least a minor victory. Anything to the Republicans right now would be a victory though, they started with nothing they wanted, and the only leverage they had was the ability to not rubber stamp spending.

[Kellhound]

The no party system means that someone can win without a majority vote of the population. So even if you run campaigns with people choosing from 5 candidates, and they bring it down to the two that get the highest number of votes for a main election it turns into all those people don't support them in the first place have to pick which one of them is worse is flawed as well.

No, the difference is post election.

[bergmann620]

Except they couldn't. Not all Democrats sit in cushy Democratic districts, so the Democrats took the Republican health plan from 1994, tweaked it a bit, and hoped to get Republican and moderate support. However, Republicans suddenly hated this health plan, solely because Democrats put it on the table.

So, they put their desire to be re-elected ahead of their desire to solve a huge and growing problem that threatens to consume our country. What a bunch of patriots.

[Tinykong]

It's an embarrassing moment on so many levels. It's also extremely expensive and something you'd expect to happen in Ghana not the greatest country in the world. How the hell can you downplay something like this.

I don't care what other nations think of us. I've grown tired of these band-aid extensions and nail biter "omg we're 30 seconds from doom! Oh *WHEW* we're saved" nonsense.

Shut it down and send everyone home if that's what it takes to open up the divisive partisan log jam that is our current government. Both sides are acting like spoiled children. Good riddance.

[NYC17]

You've confused the two separate arguments actually.

In either case, they've both been refuted. Multiple times, by multiple people. You just demand special attention because your arguments are..special.

You're not really helping yourself.

[Chrysia]

I know, right? Of course, it's only bad when they do it. In my life experience, being fucking stupid in response to others' being fucking stupid, is, well, fucking stupid.

It's fundamentally different to refuse to enter in-depth budget negotiations during a budget crisis, instead of refusing to enter in-depth budget negotiations that would have averted the crisis in the first place.

The Democrats are asking for a 6 week extension so a real budget committee can get together without furloughing 800000 employees while they hammer out the details. They aren't asking for the moon, here.

[frumper]

It's an embarrassing moment on so many levels. It's also extremely expensive and something you'd expect to happen in Ghana not the greatest country in the world. How the hell can you downplay something like this.

You don't understand the U.S. if you think we're embarassed by standing on our principles. I don't agree with the Republicans, but at least this time I actually believe this is what they want. I'm ok with that. The voters will remember and judge. Who will they judge? I don't know and quite frankly doesn't matter to me.

[obdigore]

I don't care what other nations think of us. I've grown tired of these band-aid extensions and nail biter "omg we're 30 seconds from doom! Oh *WHEW* we're saved" nonsense.

Shut it down and send everyone home if that's what it takes to open up the divisive partisan log jam that is our current government. Both sides are acting like spoiled children. Good riddance.

I guess I'm not sure what the 'compromise' is from the GOP side? We get a functioning government? We get to go the parks that our tax dollars pay to maintain? I wanted to go to Gettysburg next weekend to look at the leaves. Trip cancelled there, hooray!