Nazgrim and DoTs, help!

[Jahrern]

So, we finally got Dark Shamans down today, and had 2 attempts on Nazgrim (seems like a REALLY easy fight) but my worrier are, Do my dots generate Rage in Defensive stance? Im staying true to my Demo lock (flame me all you want, its still my favorite spec to play) and doom has a very long duration as we all know. So if he does generate rage, is there i way to cancel our dots? or do i have to time it?

[Oogly]

No, only if you reapply them during the stance and even then its only the first tick that counts i believe.

[Jahrern]

Thanks! that really helps! i never re-applied it, so then that should not be an issue then. Thanks again for the fast answer. Do pets generate then? i allways take it off, but its still good to know if they do

[ice216]

It was looking like pets were not generating rage either, can anyone confirm?

[Grizelda]

A hunter told me last night that pet damage doesn't count against his defensive stance rage either.

Can anyone confirm or deny before I try it and wipe my raid?

[rijn dael]

A hunter told me last night that pet damage doesn't count against his defensive stance rage either.

Can anyone confirm or deny before I try it and wipe my raid?

Pets, guardians, and dots applied *before* defensive stance starts are all fine.

Additionally, untargeted aoe's are supposedly fine, so in theory you could sit there spamming rain-of-fire type spells too, but I haven't tested. Refreshing dots just before defensive stance is a good idea

[Jahrern]

Thanks man!!

[Grizelda]

I wonder how havoc would play out.

Applied before defensive stance but using charges after.

[rijn dael]

I wonder how havoc would play out.

Applied before defensive stance but using charges after.

Can't say I have tried it, but it would be interesting. The rage gain is capped at once per 3 seconds, and one mistake won't give him full rage, give it a go

[lockedout]

What's the worst that can happen?
You get an axe flying around?

[MrHappy]

hmm interesting. Can anyone confirm RoF won't proc rage?

With regards to Havoc I think, even with havoc applied before defensive, would proc rage on boss because combat log shows the damage of the w/e the duplicate spell you casted not a Havoc "dot" for the same amount so technically you are casting at the boss still.

[walp]

sit there spamming rain-of-fire

Rain of fire generates rage with each tick.

[rijn dael]

hmm interesting. Can anyone confirm RoF won't proc rage?

With regards to Havoc I think, even with havoc applied before defensive, would proc rage on boss because combat log shows the damage of the w/e the duplicate spell you casted not a Havoc "dot" for the same amount so technically you are casting at the boss still.

Will try and check rof specifically in flex this reset, if my group doesn't just zerg him :P Not being the baddie hitting the boss on heroic!

I am not sure what event they are actually using to trigger the rage gain, I am working on the assumption of SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS where the source is a player - If a mage wants to cast AM at the boss just before it triggers defensive, that would probably answer it - Unless it has been changed recently, it triggers the SPELL_DAMAGE (rather than SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE triggered by malefic grasp/drainsoul/mindflay) event every tick, but only SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS on the initial cast.

Thinking along that line, you probably can get away with a drainsoul cast before the change. If you have no adds to kill, it would be free damage

[Deleted]

Dots applied before def stance do not generate rage.
Pets attacking during def stance do not generate rage.
The application of dots during def stance generates rage.
The ticks of dots applied during def stance do not generate rage.

I am not sure you can get MG/DS off before Def Stance and then go through without giving him more rage. There used to be such a discussion for Spirit Kings HC MSV, and I tried it once... caused a wipe... The tick of MG/DS blew up the shadow shield, eventhough it was applied beforehand.

What would give the boss rage, provided your group isn't nuking him in def stance, would be his banner + the bladestorm add (and the others).
The def stance rage generation mechanic even has a 1 sec cd and really isn't a big deal.
Obviously, don't attack him during def stance, unless you apply a tactic that includes doing so.

[Deleted]

Dots and pets are fine.

I've always left my pet on him and had nothing nasty happen, back when UVLS was still viable, I'd regularly put COD back on him regardless of stance.

The mechanic, at least on normal, really isn't that nasty. The longer the fight goes on, the less scary his spinning axes are, but I've had times where in good trinket procs I've re-dotted him even as affliction, my group's never seen any axes as far as I remember, he usually ends up blowing his rage on other mechanics. You're right in saying the fight is pretty easy, while I'm not advocating dpsing him during defensive stance, it's really not going to wipe the raid if you throw something his way provided you're not tunneling him.

[Siri]

I am not sure you can get MG/DS off before Def Stance and then go through without giving him more rage. There used to be such a discussion for Spirit Kings HC MSV, and I tried it once... caused a wipe... The tick of MG/DS blew up the shadow shield, eventhough it was applied beforehand.

There's a pretty decent chance that it isn't MG/DS causing issues, it's the ticks that MG/DS ticks generate because these bonus ticks do not log as dots, they log as direct damage.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Dots and pets are fine.

I've always left my pet on him and had nothing nasty happen, back when UVLS was still viable, I'd regularly put COD back on him regardless of stance.

The mechanic, at least on normal, really isn't that nasty. The longer the fight goes on, the less scary his spinning axes are, but I've had times where in good trinket procs I've re-dotted him even as affliction, my group's never seen any axes as far as I remember, he usually ends up blowing his rage on other mechanics. You're right in saying the fight is pretty easy, while I'm not advocating dpsing him during defensive stance, it's really not going to wipe the raid if you throw something his way provided you're not tunneling him.

The problem is if ONE thinks it's okay to dot when he's in defensive then 10 others will and suddenly you got a spinning axe, axes don disappear on heroic btw so if you get one you should yell.