The LFR deserter debuff for tanks needs to be, like, 7 days

[Salted Beef]

Does it still work that way? (Some posts in this thread gave me an impression it was removed)

Like most protections in LFR, it depends on player, the player's accumulated infractions, the player's number of successful runs, and the number of attempts made at a boss. If you're tagging along with a friend that has to bounce after a kill or two, you're likely to be fine. If you're buying an instant queue in trade, chances are that you're actually paying for a deserter debuff.

Recently, I joined an...infamous tank for a queue and I still got the boot after the Durumu kill when he dropped, along with the three other players in our group.

[Demoneq]

If more people were less afraid of doing one of these roles the queue times would drop.

I'm not afraid of tanking, or healing.
I'm unwilling to put up with the abuse tanks/healers get in LFR, so I take a queue, and run it as dps.
I don't complain about the queue, though.

Though yes, there are people who don't feel comfortable in the role of tank or healer, or don't enjoy it, or whatever - heck, I tried Resto as druid, didn't like it, dropped for Balance (for me it's specifically the spec issue though, not the healer's role in general) - and it's their business, whether they want to play it or not (though yeah, if they complain about dps queue, it's a bit meh).

[Zantos]

I left 5 LFRs yesterday, terrible groups One example: After a wipe on Protectors I asked to get rid of people who were doing 20-30k dps (balance druid in agility gear etc.). I was told "just go", so I did.

One time I did Durumu. After the vast majority of the group died, including me, I asked to boot the other tank who was afk the entire fight and wouldn't taunt. I also asked to boot the two healers below me (prot paladin) in healing done. What happened? They kicked both of us tanks. Yeah, LFR are a bunch of idiots who deserve their long queue times.

[Nanaboostme]

The LFD/LFR complaining needs to really stop. Use the trade chat and form your own group, thats still available. We expect too much from LFD/LFR. who remembers wrath before LFD?

[Zantos]

The LFD/LFR complaining needs to really stop. Use the trade chat and form your own group, thats still available. We expect too much from LFD/LFR. who remembers wrath before LFD?

I can see it now (my realm). LFM LFR pst! "Lol queue for that" "hes probably just looking for a carry" "Ha!Get booted one too many times? L2play!"

In short, wouldn't end well.

[Wildtree]

The LFD/LFR complaining needs to really stop. Use the trade chat and form your own group, thats still available. We expect too much from LFD/LFR. who remembers wrath before LFD?

Wrath, TBC, Vanilla... Three stages where the system worked just fine.
The difference is actually obvious. You were bound to your server. You've had to actually deliver on two aspects. Performance, and behavior. If you acted like a jerk, you ended up blacklisted over time. That part vanished basically completely. Jerk is the new cool nowadays in the game..

[banur]

No, I'm blaming the tank for leaving.

You can always move on with a couple of DPS or a healer missing. With a tank or two missing, ...?

So, when a tank leaves, I am in fact blaming only the tank.

Why should a tank be punished more for leaving than any other role?
Why should a healer or dps get a shorter deserter when they don't want to put up with a bad group?

[...] The obvious counter argument to this is "Oh if I've killed boss 3/4 but not 1/2 why should I have to stay if I get dropped in at boss 3 again?" and my answer to that is, in the long run you would be saving lots and lots of people a pain in the ass queue fiasco that lasts for hours of people leaving. [...]

Why should they waste THEIR time to save the others? The loot bags you suggest might compensate them but why would they stay otherwise?

[Blur4stuff]

if someone isn't having fun doing something then you would only make it worse by making that something even less fun

[dalch]

4 hour long deserter buff for anyone that leaves the raid, including dpsers, account wide.
Same applies for fake dcs and being kicked

Timer gets shorter depending on how many bosses were killed.
If you join a fresh SoO, for example, and just leave instantly, you get 4 hours.
If you leave after killing one boss, you get 3 hours, etc

If you already killed say, the last two bosses, and just need the first 2, after you kill both of them, you can leave without a debuff. If you kill only one, you get 1 hour.
Deserter doesn't kick in if a majority of the players left, or if the requeue timer is above 20 minutes.
Deserter also makes you unable to kill any of the outdoor bosses or to enter any other raid or dungeon, thus preventing you of soloing stuff.

timer is adjusted depending on how many bosses there are in a wing.
If there are 16 and you leave as soon as you get in, you eat a 16 hour debuff.

[khalltusk]

I'm not afraid of tanking, or healing.
I'm unwilling to put up with the abuse tanks/healers get in LFR, so I take a queue, and run it as dps.
I don't complain about the queue, though.

Though yes, there are people who don't feel comfortable in the role of tank or healer, or don't enjoy it, or whatever - heck, I tried Resto as druid, didn't like it, dropped for Balance (for me it's specifically the spec issue though, not the healer's role in general) - and it's their business, whether they want to play it or not (though yeah, if they complain about dps queue, it's a bit meh).

If you don't tank or heal and don't complain about the queues its fine.

If you complain about the queues and have the answer to the solution its a problem and you should try healing/tanking.

I view tanking the same as DPS apart from you just do some slightly different stuff. Usually aiming the boss away from the raid taunting and getting hit by the boss and trying to hold aggro. using CDs to survive just like you would as a DPS but more often.

I would say I don't have a problem with someone like your self. You know the issue and don't complain about the queue times. It's your call to make if you want to heal or tank.

[Palmtree]

Make the deserter buff (most important) PLAY-time, 1 hour and a 100% buff when you leave yourself (not only before you killed your first boss) and it will fix a lot.

With the play-time thing that will prevent just logging an alt for the time and people will actually think before they leave..now tank 1 leaves on 2nd boss...other tank/healers calculate waiting time against instant cue in another group giving the original group a 95% disband.

[Cyrops]

If I enter a half done run on tank (SoO) and I see a lot of determination stacks, I go "woohoo" because that means the boss will die soon
2nd part of LFR is really much harder than 1st part of LFR (from personal point of view).

[Perryn]

I wouldn't mind seeing a longer debuff on -any- player that decides to leave. People give up way too soon nowadays.

Having said that, a tank-specific debuff is just a plain bad idea and would be counterproductive. FWIW I haven't had any issues when tanking LFR thus far in SoO, ok granted came in at a Shamans group with 5 stacks last night and the other tank was a DK in dps gear pretty much, but we did eventually get down the boss then have a few more wipes on Nazgrim (because the dps didn't get the concept of dps priority and stopping dps on boss during defensive stance) but after that pretty good. Had to go back in and do the first two bosses again (trying to get the last runestones so I can finish that bit up in the same lockout next week) but left with a polite farewell after the 2nd boss as it was already very late and my boss is insensitive to raiding needs causing me to be late at work...

But longer debuffs overall sure. And some way (beyond kicking) to punish pure dick behavior would be nice..

[h4rr0d]

Or, I dunno, 1 day the first time, and if you get a deserter debuff again within a week, 7 days.

I would be fine with a long debuff for healers too.

And while we're at it, let's ban hybrids from queuing as DPS, that'd help with the super long wait times for tanks too yknow?

[Nobleshield]

Here's the thing: As a tank, even in LFR, I have the most responsibility of anyone. I need to know what trash needs to be pulled, what trash can safely be skipped (and then make sure nobody facepulls), in many cases what mechanics the trash mobs have in case it's anything crazy, not to mention the boss fight itself. In many cases I need to instruct the other tank what to do, if not give general tips like "Don't DPS in Defensive Stance". Even if I play at 110%, if DPS is slacking or has bad awareness or if people go AFK before the pull (because really when you have one person AFK you get the typical "Just go" people that want to start the fight without waiting), I can't prevent a wipe and solo the boss. So when I go into LFR if I can tell the run is going to end badly or if I'm going to spend an inordinate amount of time in there, sorry but it's not worth the Return On Investment. I'm a pretty patient guy and all but I really don't want to spend 2+ hours in an LFR because people just can't grasp the fight mechanics; I never ragequit or anything, I always leave politely, but I'm not going to stay in something like that because frankly there's no benefit to me, and I'm not there out of the kindness of my heart.

[h4rr0d]

Make the deserter buff (most important) PLAY-time, 1 hour and a 100% buff when you leave yourself (not only before you killed your first boss) and it will fix a lot.

With the play-time thing that will prevent just logging an alt for the time and people will actually think before they leave..now tank 1 leaves on 2nd boss...other tank/healers calculate waiting time against instant cue in another group giving the original group a 95% disband.

No it won't. 1 hour of idling in a major city or running around TI >>>> being stuck with morons who can't grasp even the most basic tactics for 2 hours or more. What could work would be debuff lasting until the original group finished the raid (or disbanded), though even then it would probably be more enjoyable to just kill some rares on TI...

[Robert3620]

I think this would lead to larger problems. The real thing they need to do is find a way to get people to want to stay for bosses they have already done. A lot of lfr groups run into trouble when the tanks drop or healers leave due to already having finished some of the bosses. The incentive to stay for bosses you have already done is so little very few stick it out if they have already done part of it.

Maybe lfr should just end and Blizzard should figure out a way to split the raid into five mans that would tell the story and let people do it that way.

[Nekovivie]

People need to not give tanks such a hard time too. Those moronic rogues/hunters who tricks/misdirect to the tank because he doesn't pull according to their own schedule (you know who you are) etc. When wipe happens, even if it's something out of your control, the raid blames the tank.

Playing as a tank in LFR isn't an enjoyable experience. You get no praise for doing well, keeping everyone alive, you're just a convenience so little retard billy can get his LFR tier gear for doing no work.

[Vvulf]

I don't think punishing tanks is helpful in any way. Tanks bear the largest responsibility of any role in the system (if they take their job seriously).
A good tank who is properly geared and knows the mechanics are a pleasure to heal and kill things alongside. Having dps and healers who know their roles and how to help tanks fulfill theirs is often rare in LFR (i.e. Hunters who know how to misdirect properly, healers who know not to cast heals on the tank before he attacks new mobs, players who know if you have a mob on you ... run TO the tank, not wildly around like a chicken with your head cut off), etc.

One issue I have is dps or healers who use tank friends to "piggyback" into the LFR system - they make a party with a tank, then queue, instantly get into LFR, and .... then the tank bails. What doesn't make sense is then they have the same wait time as if they just queued normally ...
A fix that sounds good to me, but I imagine would be extremely difficult to implement would be - if you queue as a party and someone from your party leaves within the first 10 minutes, your entire party gets kicked out of the LFR and everyone gets an hour deserter debuff.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

LFR is shit when over half of the DPS is pulling sub 50k dps.