Why gearing in Timeless Isle is worse than new dungeon.

[Wildtree]

At the danger of getting torn apart... But..... to me (and I have lots of guild mates and friends in the game sharing that opinion).....
The Timeless Isle is the worst event Blizzard has ever put into the game. Collect 50 Stones, Kill 20 Elites, Kill 5 rares....
Let's start with the 5 rares.... That is doable, rather decent. One cannot expect to find 5 rares sitting side by side to kill them all within a couple minutes. That quest is okay...

Kill 20 Elites, that quest is a little more tricky, and takes more time than the rares, and it does (depending on realm population) cross the line of ridiculous grind for just a bit.
But then the 50 stones, that quest is outright idiotic. It's a weekly quest one could say. Don't have to do it all at once. Well, the supply quest in Barrens was a weekly quest too, and yet still, one could have done that quest in not more than 30 - 45 minutes. And that, with complete neglecting mindless farming/grinding mobs.
On top of it, the totally out of line spam from stupid addons in the zone chat.
Isle of Thunder, and Barrens had a reason for addons. There they were helpful for the community, because the targets ramped up their health, the more people hit them.
The Timeless mobs don't ramp up. No one gives a shit if a turtle just spawned or died. Those in the proximity of the turtle see it. Those not, won't make it there anyway.
And that is valid for all rares. So, if you need an addon, because you cannot remember where the spawn points are, then for the love of god, turn the damn broadcast feature off. It's annoying. And if you don't have one, but rather constantly have to ask where and who spawns, get a damn addon, and too make sure it won't broadcast.

For myself, I go to the isle for only one reason, and that's to kill the world bosses there. Once they are killed, I'm happily leave the isle again. The Valor I can get there I get much faster through other means. The gear that drops there is horrible itemized, which means I get better gear through other means as well.
Anything else one can get there, is basically just pets, for which it's more productive for me to simply buy them, and make the money back in other regions that are rather abandoned. And a mount... Whether I get that in 2 days, or 2 years is to me rather irrelevant. Achievements are there too.. I get them too, once the isle is rather empty again, and I don't have to basically sit there and farm the rares until they spawn. Only costs time and productivity I can put to better use through other means.

So in a way.. The OP is actually correct. Considering the HUGE time sink, the isle is worse for gearing up than running dungeons. Whether dungeons are more intelligent, that remains to be questioned. They too are pretty mind numbing... lol

[Aleksej89]

Been playing WoW since vanilla 2005.

Timeless isle easily one of the best things that ever got implemented in wow.

Entire concept of dungeons is very old, boring and outdated.

[Felarion]

Im not a fan of timeless isle either. Isle of Thunder/5.1 was better imo. But i don't mind the look of it, epsecially consider that blizz said they move most of their artist to work for a new expac for some time already So let's just hope next expac will be way better than pandaland and without timeless isle or at least some mix of timeless/isle of thunder .

[Wildtree]

Been playing WoW since vanilla 2005.

Timeless isle easily one of the best things that ever got implemented in wow.

Entire concept of dungeons is very old, boring and outdated.

Cannot compare the Isle events with dungeons. Two different entities.
What you can compare is Isle of Thunder with Timeless Isle. And to me Isle of Thunder is hands down the winner by a large margin.
With that isle they've had it completely nailed.

[hYrsch]

It's just, once you optained all the gear from the isle, which is not that hard because its only 496, you have nothing to do anymore. And even until then you farmed rar mobs over and over again. The Burden of Eternity are just dropping to seldom and randomly to make them a interesting goal for twinks.

Also because the Rars are dying so fast, it might be that there are 5 rars spawning back to back, and you wont kill any of them, just because you cant reach them in the 10 seconds they are alive, which is incredible frustrating.

I went with all my chars on the isle once and looted all the chest (chests you can loot only once for the next 6 months until next expansion is coming, dafuq? content?) and killing the world bosses weekly, thats it. Besides raiding, there is nothing interessting to do in 5.4.

Edit: i like the concept of the isle, with GW2 style dynamic events - more or less - but the reward is just not desirable enough. It's just a major grind fest

[Glorious Leader]

Timeless Isle is an alternative to raiding as well.

It's not. not in the same sense that heroics in cataclysm were or heroics in wrath. It cannot be as if it were an actual alternative it would take away from the production of raids.

And the current system that is so horrible is... what exactly? LFR? Flex? No dungeons?

The lack of end game alternatives to raiding. TI is not an alternative. Especially not relative to the alternatives that people were doing in the past i.e buyign valor gear through dungeons

No, I pretty much mean completely regular people who barely even raid. It was one of the, if not the most common complaint in Cataclysm that there wasn't enough to do. It's the entire reason Blizzard has been working their ass off to deliver content faster this expansion.

This was a common complaint on forums, it was certainly not a common complaint by players in game. The complaint in mists that it "offered to much to do" (which isn't really true btw it's just more obnoxious grind) could also be taken as a counter to that. While the complaint of lack of things to do was very frequent it was certainly not universal or one that should have been acted upon. The content being developed fast this expansion is a result of the streamlining process they did and basically why we don't have any more dungeons. Everyone being shoved into raiding allows to focus basically just on raiding.

The RNG is a necessity to make sure the content is relevant for a long enough time for them to develop new content.

This is of course simple untrue and some basic math could show you why. 16 slots of gear, 1000 valor cap. Let's say each piece is 1000 with the weapon being 1600. You've got roughly between 3-4 months (and that's assuming you cap every week). Given the current patch schedule of 5-6 months that leaves one-tw0 month for alts. RNG IS NOT NECESSARY. It sure as hell isn't necessary in PVP whose model is almost ENTIRELY ALL DETERMINISTIC. IT's a complete fucking MYTH because people were avoiding rng for TWO EXPANSIONS including wrath and nobody suffered.

TI is not more casual friendly than wrath. It rewards less than wrath, takes more time to get anywhere and finally raiding by ANY MEASURE is not casual friendly and not something casuals asked for. It being easy is not the sole measure of casual or not. Making raiding the sole end game makes mists terrible not casual friendly.

[Wildtree]

It's just, once you optained all the gear from the isle, which is not that hard because its only 496, you have nothing to do anymore. And even until then you farmed rar mobs over and over again. The Burden of Eternity are just dropping to seldom and randomly to make them a interesting goal for twinks.

Also because the Rars are dying so fast, it might be that there are 5 rars spawning back to back, and you wont kill any of them, just because you cant reach them in the 10 seconds they are alive, which is incredible frustrating.

I went with all my chars on the isle once and looted all the chest (chests you can loot only once for the next 6 months until next expansion is coming, dafuq? content?) and killing the world bosses weekly, thats it. Besides raiding, there is nothing interessting to do in 5.4.

There are 6 chests you can loot weekly. But my observation is, that only at the very first loot they are generous. Then they are rather meh..

[potis]

Timeless Isle is good but done very wrongly and poorly.

1)The gear is useless, completely useless.

2)No weapon, making you extra useless.

3)Trinkets are a joke, without ToT trinkets at least you cant do any real damage to be useful to anything and with a huge chance to get kicked in LFR.

Its a good catch up system but completely worthless.

The gear should have been 522, and shouldnt be so spammable because of the chests, it should be farmable solo wise with a chance to drop from mobs and even bigger chance from rares, add like +10 quests on the island and make it give a couple of rewards, making you work like ~8 hours to get most of the set, etc but the gear would actually matter.

There should have been weapons 516 item level and trinkets that are actually useful that gives 10k stats like ToT/SoO ones, but with a bad proc rate the same way it has been all this time.

I understand how people say "Its a good catch up system" but i am not sure you are playing the same game, i agree the system is alright, but the item levels and the way it was done is wrong.

Should have been like 5k coins per item to fill up slots you havent had from chests/quests/drops and the weapon for like 30k, but its an actual 516 weapon with decent stats so you can catch up.

Timeless Isle gear, even if you go 496, you dont have a weapon, you dont have trinkets, you will not sustain above 80k DPS and thats being generous and skilled at the game.

Right now the game is at a level where any DPS below 120K is worthless and Timeless Isle gear is easily 50% behind that.

[Deleted]

How is that different than TI?

It isn't as rewarding. Wrath's dungeons gave you gear just bellow the raiding gear, if the dungeons today gave gear of the same kind of level, it would be comparing itself with flex.

[Deleted]

At the moment they're both bullshit.
Timeless Isle idea would've been good if:
- Not every chest you opened gave you 500+ loot
- It tied to the storyline of the current patch
- People actually had to put effort in getting the items: use class skill instead of having patience.
Dungeons would be good again if:
-Curent normals were as difficult as current "Heroics"
-Current "Heroics" were near Cata difficulty
-It wouldn't be a complete ninjafest for every cunt that wants OS gear while they ran the dungeon in a different role (Healers needing on DPS items whilst not in DPS role current)

[Wildtree]

Timeless Isle is good but done very wrongly and poorly.

1)The gear is useless, completely useless.

2)No weapon, making you extra useless.

3)Trinkets are a joke, without ToT trinkets at least you cant do any real damage to be useful to anything and with a huge chance to get kicked in LFR.

Its a good catch up system but completely worthless.

The gear should have been 522, and shouldnt be so spammable because of the chests, it should be farmable solo wise with a chance to drop from mobs and even bigger chance from rares, add like +10 quests on the island and make it give a couple of rewards, making you work like ~8 hours to get most of the set, etc but the gear would actually matter.

There should have been weapons 516 item level and trinkets that are actually useful that gives 10k stats like ToT/SoO ones, but with a bad proc rate the same way it has been all this time.

I understand how people say "Its a good catch up system" but i am not sure you are playing the same game, i agree the system is alright, but the item levels and the way it was done is wrong.

Timeless Isle gear, even if you go 496, you dont have a weapon, you dont have trinkets, you will not sustain above 80k DPS and thats being generous and skilled at the game.

Right now the game is at a level where any DPS below 120K is worthless and Timeless Isle gear is easily 50% behind that.

Timeless geared toons meet the item level for SoO LFR, but they do not (and cannot) pull the numbers even in LFR are needed. So yes, you are right.

[DrMcNinja]

I loved the early cataclysm heroics, and would love for Blizzard to at the very least add another dungeon difficulty and put the early cataclysm heroic version there, so that those who can't handle it can keep on grinding their mindless npc's with no effort without being able to complain about losing out on dungeons. Alas, I doubt Blizzard will ever do this, it would be too good to be true.

This is something I would like them to do:
Heroic dungeons -> regular dungeons
new mode -------> heroic dungeons, requires a premade group (otherwise people will call out for nerfs).
challenge modes--> challenge mode

What they could do is have a new mode, that works just like the BC loot system: 2 drops instead of one from each boss, with an epic drop from the final boss. They can make the trash pulls be more coordinated and the boss mechanics harder (I LOVED the first boss in Grim Batol)

[Farora]

Dungeons AND something like Timeless isle is what they should have done.

[Krommm]

I do enjoy some of the concepts of the Isle, however I must agree I would of preferred even just one dungeon to obtain gear for alts. The ilvl is fine, but almost all of the timeless gear is under budget. On the other hand the Isle is more engaging if the realm isn't "dead". I foresee personal loot drops akin to LFR/Flex in dungeons so there is less "ninjaing" and whatnot. What I find interesting is to get most slots filled with basic 496 it does not take very long, but if you want to spam burdens and get a 535 with ideal stats you may be in for a long grind. That said, I realize it is stepping stone gear, and at the same time it comes down to preference if people like gearing with no competition on the Isle vs chain running a dungeon.

[Deleted]

Timeless Isle is good but done very wrongly and poorly.

1)The gear is useless, completely useless.

2)No weapon, making you extra useless.

3)Trinkets are a joke, without ToT trinkets at least you cant do any real damage to be useful to anything and with a huge chance to get kicked in LFR.


Timeless Isle gear, even if you go 496, you dont have a weapon, you dont have trinkets, you will not sustain above 80k DPS and thats being generous and skilled at the game.

Right now the game is at a level where any DPS below 120K is worthless and Timeless Isle gear is easily 50% behind that.

the gear is fine to go into tot lfr and nerfed tot normal where the dps is acceptable. are you disappointed because you can´t do SoO heroic after 2 days of farming the isle?
it´s supposed to be a catchup so you don´t have to do mogushan vaults and the earlier raids, not jump right into the last tier.

[Wildtree]

the gear is fine to go into tot lfr and nerfed tot normal where the dps is acceptable. are you disappointed because you can´t do SoO heroic after 2 days of farming the isle?
it´s supposed to be a catchup so you don´t have to do mogushan vaults and the earlier raids, not jump right into the last tier.

Agreed with you, if there was something like common sense in place. But it isn't.. The gear is sufficient to break the Ilevel requirement for SoO though. And people go there instead of gearing up through ToT first.

[Hubbl3]

I don't care about timeless isle more I would care about new dungeons. You do both one time and never again. So new dungeons vs timeless isle? Yeah, whatever. Content is always good, I guess.

[Manabomb]

At the moment they're both bullshit.
Timeless Isle idea would've been good if:
- Not every chest you opened gave you 500+ loot
- It tied to the storyline of the current patch
- People actually had to put effort in getting the items: use class skill instead of having patience.
Dungeons would be good again if:
-Curent normals were as difficult as current "Heroics"
-Current "Heroics" were near Cata difficulty
-It wouldn't be a complete ninjafest for every cunt that wants OS gear while they ran the dungeon in a different role (Healers needing on DPS items whilst not in DPS role current)

Two issues. Every chest does not give you 500+ loot. It's rng'd 496 loot and an item that can rng you into 535 loot. Mind you, class depending, most of the "single stat" (especially expertise or hit or spirit) items from this have worse itemization than say 522 gear from ToT.

You have a point, timeless isle was a left wing in terms of story, in an almost mocking way they start to bring back the dragonflights into the fray.

See, the issue here is that effort =/= availability. Which, is something I will get on later.

Like right here, when you say heroics must be cata difficulty. I've been over this in another post, but I guess I will say it again, we've been down this road. it's a bad road. Forcing the bottom 95% through content because you want a "difficult" gearing up system is an expense even the most junior of business men in blizzard's position wouldn't make. You have difficult parts of this game. We have brawlers guild, which takes practice, timing and skill, though can be outgeared (like every other piece of content outside of pvp, challenge modes and proving grounds in this game). We have normal raiding, heroic raiding. Even flex can be considered a challenge people depending.

I'm going to repeat myself for good measure. The sooner we learn that forcing people through difficult mechanics who otherwise would never bother with said mechanics is not going to magically make them better at the game than the current system already does, the more valid arguments on this forum will be. Lfr, lfd, solo questing content, dailies are all the bottom rung of content in this game, and sadly if you're a 5man-er and you play for running 5 mans and already have 9/9 challenge modes and hate raiding, then unfortunately you simply are not the majority.

As if a majority wanting something has ever meant anything, least of all to Blizzard.

[Feralia]

Well it isn't a bad idea IMO at the end of an expansion. If they brought it out at the start then yes, it would be a bad idea. What I like about it is that I can gear up my alts quickly ready to jump into raiding, without having to grind out rep over and over and over again.
As for dungeons and people gearing by practicing in dungeons before raiding, well that only really applies at the start of the expansion. Nowadays dungeons are faceroll, as everyone is geared and know fights, and all it is speed through runs where little or no skill is involved.
Dungeons are fun yes, for the first few run through only. After that, it becomes a bore.

[potis]

the gear is fine to go into tot lfr and nerfed tot normal where the dps is acceptable. are you disappointed because you can´t do SoO heroic after 2 days of farming the isle?
it´s supposed to be a catchup so you don´t have to do mogushan vaults and the earlier raids, not jump right into the last tier.

Game has changed since WoTLK and i am the type that dislikes this type of changes, i dont wanna jump into anything, i am just experienced and intelligent to see how bad Timeless Isle is compared to the masses.

Its a good system but the item scaling is horrible compared to dungeons in WoTLK/Cata.

In both WoTLK and Cata, i quit the game for a year if not more because of boredom or personal reasons, both times i could catch up in a matter of days if i wanted to raid normal as some of my friends did that actually raided again at the ICC/DS patches.

Right now in MoP this isnt possible, the average DPS in ToT normal with trinkets and set bonuses, is close to 160-180K without counting the cloaks and thats around 520 item level thats 150% ahead of the DPS Timeless gear provides because:

1)No sockets.

2)Horrible trinkets

3)No weapon.

Timeless Isle is a great idea done wrongly, insanely wrongly.

How many times have i seen people or kicked people at Nazgrim the first weeks because half the raid was full of Timeless Isle player and the recount looked like:

One person with gear and legendary cloak over 200-250K DPS.
Two-Three people at 120-150K
5 people from 70 to 100K with the tanks somewhere in here
10 DPS below 70K most at 40-50K making the boss unkillable.

Of course what followed in every single LFR with 5 characters, was kicking as many people with 30-50K dps because its impossible to carry them, not mentioning how they died to Ravagers, thats another story.

Its not their fault, the game just went the wrong way.

And to Vegas82.

476 weapon is useless at this point of the game, the minimum acceptable that you can produce some decent DPS is ToT 502, and its upgrade to 510.