Why bring a DK DPS to a 10 man group?

[Deleted]

All I'm going to say is this: I play a Frost DW spec this tier and I top most of the fights, but I can rank pretty much any boss fight. If you know how to really play your class in details the difference between a mediocre DK and a good one DK can be quite large.

[Deleted]

Out of all melees, I just want warriors and rogues in my 10 man group.

enh shaman doesnt seem too bad either tbh

[Skarssen]

I completely agree with grip and AoE grip but using cc for adds on nazgrim isnt really something special a dk can do.
The main reason i'm asking this is because we are 10 man, this is much easier to decide if u are 25 man and can afford more class diversity but in 10 man I think you need to compare classes more especially melee since ranged is usually more benefitial, for example dark shaman heroic.

As I stated, the only thing unique about a DPS DK is the grips. Everything else, while potentially useful (ranged stun, using AMS to ignore stacks, etc) is either superfluous or could be brought by a ranged DPS, which are ALWAYS superior in just about every facet of PVE.

I don't know what your current raid looks like, but if you want someone to soak plate DPS gear and you aren't otherwise protector-token heavy, go with a DPS warrior. If you are protector-heavy but vanquisher light, then a DPS DK is certainly viable.....but not "optimal".

[Eklypto]

Bring the player, not the class.

The only time the above is not true is usually for guilds that are pushing world firsts for the race. Otherwise you bring the players based on their individual skills. if you have a guild member that plays frost, try them out, if they start beating out other melee classes, why not bring them?

Others above my post have pointed out what buffs DK's do bring to the raid so no need to cover those again.

[Louis CK]

Change? Like how Frost has been pretty much the same since Wotlk and also Unholy since Pre-Cata? (:

Blizz y u hate us

I WISH I could still tank in Frost spec (real tanking, not like 5man tanking, which I of course do haha)

[ati87]

As I stated, the only thing unique about a DPS DK is the grips. Everything else, while potentially useful (ranged stun, using AMS to ignore stacks, etc) is either superfluous or could be brought by a ranged DPS, which are ALWAYS superior in just about every facet of PVE.

I don't know what your current raid looks like, but if you want someone to soak plate DPS gear and you aren't otherwise protector-token heavy, go with a DPS warrior. If you are protector-heavy but vanquisher light, then a DPS DK is certainly viable.....but not "optimal".

Please you know you can say this about literately every class....

I remember a time when shamans complained that 2 or 3 classes could bring everything they could bring (except bloodlust/heroism) and thus their was no reason to bring a shaman.....

Their are some fights where class A or spec X will do better then class B or spec Y, but my experience is that even if that having class A won't improve your chances of killing the boss. ATM their are allot of fights in WoW where your doing allot of useless dps that have a small impact on whatever you kill a boss or not.

[Seiken3]

I got a DK-dps in my team and he's more or less on top of the meters. His gear is about the same as the others, so... either he's just very skilled at his class, or everyone else is performing poorly. I like to believe the first one~

[makketota]

- If you are lacking a plate dps so gear is not wasted
- Death Grip can be really useful
- AmS soaking
- 6 sec AoE stun?

[Louis CK]

Why bring a DK DPS to a 10 man group?
I am a raid leader / guild master of a 6/14 HC 10 man group and i'm contemplating how I want my group to look like for the next tier. The class it self is subject to change in the next expension of course, but based on the state of DKs now, what are the benefits of a dk dps in a 10 man group? Instead of for example, rogue/warrior.

We don't have a dk dps in our group atm and never have so im curious as to what they bring.

While I'm currently gearing back up after some time away this expansion, in my experience, unless you're dealing with Top-double digit raiding progression, the raiders in your group are "most likely" not all performing to 100% of their maximum potential, in which case, someone who may not have as much on paper can prove a lot more useful in reality.

For example, a Warrior, Mage and DK all have the exact same ilvl, and according to sims/paper they should rank on DPS in a certain order. And in Top double digit guilds, this may prove true. However, in most guilds, this is not true. Your mage may be really, really good for example and bring a lot of DPS, but chances are not the absolute maximum that he could. Your DK on the other hand, bringing his absolute maximum (or damn near) is right up there with your mage or even above him.

So, I think with the rate of progression you're going with, you may be overthinking it. Obviously you'll want to keep raid usefulness in mind, etc., and DK's do offer a lot of that if the player knows what he's doing.

I guess what I'm saying is this: On paper, you'd want to take X class over DK. When in reality, X class can't perform/play at the same level as that DK that you're pushing away JUST because he's a DK.

I think I've got this whole point all muddled up, but I'm just saying don't overthink it. Your rate of progression isn't to the point that it's going to destroy your raid.

Find a great player, and unless he's actually taking away from your raid by having him, chances are he'll prove more useful than the other player just because they're good on paper.

[Sliske]

Since no doubt the majority if not all of the posters in this thread including myself are world 50+ guilds not really pushing to the absolute limit i dont see why you'd even care. Like so what you dont have a skull banner. Is it going to be your weakness on world first races in 550 ilvl gear? Possibly. Is it going to be your weakness in world 50+ guilds progressing casually in 570+ ilvl gear? I very much doubt it.

So to answer your question "Why bring a DK DPS to a 10 man group?" Because hes the best app your casual guild has.

If you speak purely on terms of absolute min maxing to the limit then no for a lot of fights that world first guild won't take a dk. There are situations were DKs would outweigh for example a rogue or warrior purely because of aoe grip but for the 99.99999% the decision on who to take will be entirely based on what rank you are (trial or member), gear and skill.

And lets face it the only place you're going to find a DK, rogue, warrior, shaman, ret, monk and feral who have mastered there class all in one place will be a world #1 guild. Thats when you can start being picky about buffs and cds. Everywhere else you can be sure one of those guys is an idiot and one of them is a champ.

[Deleted]

We're currently looking for a DPS DK to fill our roster with The mane reason we're looking for one is to soak all the gear that our Prot Warr and our Ret Pala don't want/need. Other than that:
1. They bring Melee Attack Speed (the only class that brings the active AS boost besides Hunter's Pet, rogue/shaman bring it passively, so if they die its lost)
2. They got some raid CDs that are nice on certain fights:
- gripping on Sha;
- stun on Galakras and Nazgrim trash.
3. They have combat-res

I can't think of any other reason just right now. But I think DKs aren't in a terrible spot right now and can be very valuable for a raid group if played well. Of course Melee aren't favorable on some fights at all (Kor'kron Dark Shaman HC) but I don't count those fights :P

[Forgettable]

Most of the reasons have already been stated, but I think the most important thing is that if you bring a DK, you don't have to worry about healing them as much as other melee DPS because of Anti-Magic Shell.

[bals]

1. They bring Melee Attack Speed (the only class that brings the active AS boost besides Hunter's Pet, rogue/shaman bring it passively, so if they die its lost)

our attack speed buff is passive http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55610

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the reasons have already been stated, but I think the most important thing is that if you bring a DK, you don't have to worry about healing them as much as other melee DPS because of Anti-Magic Shell.

rogues require way less healing

[Katchii]

As others have said, if you're not in a bleeding edge progression guild there isn't a reason to min/max your raid comp. Bring the best players that fill the slots you need. A competent, fun group is far more important in the long run than a totally optimized group...especially if the competent, fun group is able to do the same content as the optimized group, just a little slower.

[Darkfriend]

Honestly in most cases I'd take an equally skilled warrior over a DK, based on their current state.

However, things in a DKs favor that are situationally useful

Brez, Mass Grip.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the reasons have already been stated, but I think the most important thing is that if you bring a DK, you don't have to worry about healing them as much as other melee DPS because of Anti-Magic Shell.

IDK warrior CDs are actually incredibly powerful now, with IV being buffed to 20% healing, SW being on a 2 minute CD w/ EEoG, and DBTS being under 2 minutes, and dstance being 25% while the stance dance GCD is only 1.5 seconds now. Not to mention much better raid defensive CDs w/ RC, Demo banner, vigilance, and in some very rare cases mass spell reflect.

[Inject]

I see a lot of people complaining about DKs this tier. I haven't run into any issues thus far. I've been incredibly viable on every fight so far that we've done (11/14H).

- Death grip and gorefiends are a godsend this tier.
- AMZ is great on a lot of fights.
- With the CD trinket our survivability has boosted a little bit with IBF.
- AoE stun, interrupt and silence combo is amazing to have on Nazgrim for the adds.
- Healers have to worry about us less on magic damage heavy fights (AMS).
- Battle Rez
- If played correctly our DPS can be great.

I have consistently ranked in the 90th+ percentile on every fight while providing utility. The thought of swapping to another class or having someone come in for me hasn't crossed my mind once yet and I don't think it will. DKs are fine right now imo.

[psyquest]

I am a raid leader of a heroic raiding guild. We raid 3-4 nights and always aim to clear heroics bosses whilst they are current content. I also happen to play a death knight as a main.

Since the begining of mop, I have found that to be optimal my raid could always do better without me as a DK. Death grip and aoe grip is just a gimmick that didnt justify a spot. In fact in a pure dps point of view, my enhance and rogue have always been ahead in dps. If I factor in the fact that almost all bosses are better done with ranged dps and that warlocks / mages / boomkins were doing the same job better and more easily, the simple conclusion is that for a progress orientated 10 man, it is better not to have a DK. Replacing the DK with a warrior or rogue is better.

Finally if you take a look at the most advanced 10 man groups you will find that the better dps are invariably distance dps then the rest.

We are ok, but not good enough to be top choice for progression 10 man groups.

[Raegwyn]

massgrip. end

[Louis CK]

massgrip. end

You should make a guide, bro.

[Metallikiddd]

DK has one of the lowest DPS and worst raidsupport.

really?...cause its the dk who is always #1 in overall dps in lfr...usually at 200k.