Why don't you raid normal/heroic?

[Novie]

Used to raid normal/a little heroic. In the middle of Cata though, my co-guild leader and I decided to move the guild to a different server. We're East Coasters, as were several of our guild members, but we were on a West Coast server. Made it difficult to recruit new folks that could raid on our schedule. Unfortunately, a lot of our guild members were either pissed at us for moving the guild, or didn't have (or want to spend) the funds to transfer their toons and didn't want to level new ones. Sucked, but it was understandable, because we also changed factions. We found a guild that had recently lost about half of their group to schedule conflicts and teamed up with them for Dragon Soul, but then we hit the time of year where we all had other commitments. After that, we sort of lost interest in raiding for awhile.

The population of our faction dropped off pretty drastically, so we didn't bother trying to recruit when we were able to start playing regularly again. We've now gone back to our original faction, which is a little more lively on our server. We've gotten so used to it just being the handful of us, though, and just running LFR when it's convenient. Starting to get a little annoyed with how quick people are to leave an LFR run though, so we'll probably start trying to recruit once our realm gets connected to another.

[ohshift]

Because it a virtual toy. I'm not rescheduling my real life to play a video game. And also because I can't stand average to mediocre people think they are god sends to Earth.

[Deleted]

Otherwise any hobby would be a waste of time. Or sport with groups, since it's at set times too, and i never minded that either.

The thing is: Just like I can't be arsed to deal with others and a set schedule ingame, I also can't be IRL.
I don't even talk to other students at the university - let alone in my free time. Having to be considerate about such set times, schedules etc. would feel like a giant waste of time and nuisance.
As long as there is ANY way to do things alone, I generally choose it.

[DeadmanWalking]

One does not need an escuse why they do not raid, living life is not an escuse why you don’t play a video game. What ever you do besides raiding is not an escuse not to raid it is the reality of why you don’t raid. It does not matter if it is because of jobs, spouses, children, school, parents, friends or what ever thing you are doing besides raiding, it is not an escuse why you don’t raid. Not Raiding will cost you a raid slot, not taking care of real life will cost you your marraige, the trust and love of your children, your grades to slip, friends to not want to be around you, loose your job, your home or even your life. Raiding is not something I need an escuse not to do, raiding is an escuse why I didn’t do something else. "I was late to work because I overslept due to raiding too late." not, "I can't go to work because I have a raid to do."

[Ronduwil]

For all the talk of LFR destroying the community. The regular raiding scene isn't much better.

Sure you have a community, a community of business associates that is ...

Exactly. People generally socialize because they have common interests outside of the game, but raiding pretty much excludes anyone whose primary interests do not revolve around WoW.

[Osmeric]

Exactly. People generally socialize because they have common interests outside of the game, but raiding pretty much excludes anyone whose primary interests do not revolve around WoW.

On the other hand, that can be ok if you accept it for what it is. People can do business without angsting over how the people they work with aren't "really" their friends. The relationships are at least more personal than the ephemeral ones from LFR.

[RaoBurning]

First and third listed reasons, mostly. Committing to a schedule makes my skin itch since I'm flaky sometimes, and the number of competent horde players on my server is limited. I'm not spending a bazillinoteen dollars to move over to Alliance, either.

[Halicia]

Exactly. People generally socialize because they have common interests outside of the game, but raiding pretty much excludes anyone whose primary interests do not revolve around WoW.

You can raid Normals on one or two nights a week and still do fairly well. I could play poker once or twice a week, and people wouldn't think my 'primary interests revolve around poker.'

But to the OP...

Cuz my server is dead. Its not the worst of the worst, but its bad enough that we couldnt fill a regular 10man raid without sacrificing our standards. So instead we do Flex and while we still have a large core of regulars, its not make or break if someone can't make it on a particular night.

[Joycemiester]

Lack of prestige in raiding, multiple difficulties of the same raid just bores me. I prefered it when it was one increasing difficulty and it got much much harder the further into the raid you went. The whole raid needed to spend weeks gearing up to be able to take on later bosses.

Loggin in and doing what I want and when I want.

More time for alts

I could go on ...

[SodiumChloride]

Exactly. People generally socialize because they have common interests outside of the game, but raiding pretty much excludes anyone whose primary interests do not revolve around WoW.

I would argue the "high" and rigid "requirements" of normal/heroic raiding more or less killed the social aspect of it. It's makes it very difficult to "stand by your friends".

I think of it this way, if you play tennis doubles recreationally, it's easy to play with your friends regardless of their playing ability because win or lose it doesn't really matter as much as having a good time. However if you are playing professionally ... a bad partner is A LOT less tolerable.

In WoW, raiding is the main activity and the ONLY way to get gear progression. Outside of raiding there really isn't much (that is worthwhile doing) to do - excluding PVP which might not be everyone's cup of tea. This makes failure in raiding "not an option".

[Ronduwil]

You can raid Normals on one or two nights a week and still do fairly well. I could play poker once or twice a week, and people wouldn't think my 'primary interests revolve around poker.'

As long as everyone else reads up on the fights, gemmed/enchanted/reforged their gear, keeps their addons up to date, and shows up to every raid on time, this is true. You kind of left most of those prerequisites out, though. The most problematic of these requirements is showing up to every raid on time. In order to make that happen you have to schedule your life around WoW. Last year I caught myself telling my wife, I hope <our daughter>'s choir concert ends by 8:00 pm so I can make it to the raid on time. That is a horrible way to live, and is not conducive to a healthy playing experience. That's raiding, though.

[Halicia]

The most problematic of these requirements is showing up to every raid on time.

While I agree that its generally the most problematic at the casual level, its no different for poker, sports, movies, or going out to eat with your friends. If you make a commitment to other people to be somewhere at a certain time thats just how it goes.

I don't know if thats really that miserable a way to live life. Would you say it was 'miserable' if you said 'I hope this raid ends by 8, so I can make my daughter's concert on time' ?

The truly miserable way to live life are the people that simply don't value their friends' time.

[KCguy]

I don't feel like dedicating more than 1 night / week for organized game activities. It's quite rare to find a guild that adheres to such an admittedly lax schedule.

There's also the fact that, as selfish as it sounds (and it is), once I kill a raid boss, I'm rarely motivated to go back. Gear simply isn't all that important to me. The only reason I went to ToT more than once, for example, was because of the legendary quest line.

Currently chipping away at flex wing 3.

Gear doesn't really mean much to me either. I enjoy raiding because I enjoy the people I'm with and downing the bosses is fun. Hell, I've passed on so much gear because I just don't care. I'd rather spread the gear around to balance my raid than hoard it all. I mean, sure, when I started playing in the beginning of BC, I always wanted everything, but I think that's how many people were and are when starting this game. Over time though I eventually didn't care and am more than happy to pass on gear if others want it more.

I'm similar to you in terms of a raiding schedule. My guild schedule is two days a week at 2.5/3 hours each night. So a total of 5-6 hours a week. That's it. I like it because anymore and I've had enough. I can't sit there and raid 16+ hours a week. (at least not anymore) It just isn't for me. Admittedly, it's tough to find raiding schedules with this little amount of time, but it's out there if you look hard enough.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Although I do raid harder difficulties, I'ts not very often. Mainly because either there's no end game reason to need the gear from harder difficulties (There's no PvE content after SoO which requires SoO gear, effectively making them unneeded until the next expac, or I cannot find people or the time required to pull a raid group together.

[Ragashii]

Earlier in the thread, I said I don't raid anymore because everyone I know quit. That's only partially true though. The real reason I don't raid anymore is because I am absolutely terrified of raiding now. Taking that first step back into something you haven't done in years...is a little daunting. Can I still do it? Am I as good as I used to be? To start all over again with new people is intimidating. Everyone asks for a high gear level and a legendary cloak these days. Well, my main can barely scratch the requirements a lot of people have at 530 ilvl. Not having the cloak is just icing on the deal-breaker cake. Any chance of getting into a semi-decent raiding guild is pretty much auto decided by a simple yes or no question at this point. Do you have the legendary cloak? Feel like it was such a huge mistake for Blizzard to make it so (time consuming) but easy to get because now everyone expects you to have it. Without it, why bother trying?

Not sure how many are out there like me, but I'm surely not the only one.

[Blufossa]

Simple: I just can't be bothered to deal with a raiding guild.

This, plus time constraints and well, having a life. :P

[Ronduwil]

While I agree that its generally the most problematic at the casual level, its no different for poker, sports, movies, or going out to eat with your friends. If you make a commitment to other people to be somewhere at a certain time thats just how it goes.

Except when you call your friends to tell them you're not making poker night or the game or the movies they either find someone else to plant their ass in your chair or they go on without you. Or if I show up late to the movie I miss the previews and maybe the first few minutes but my friends will not have missed anything. The same is not true of raiding. If I don't show up to heal on a given night chances are the raid is called. If I'm 20 minutes late they will have wasted 15 minutes waiting by the boss after clearing trash. If they happen to find a replacement there's a very good chance I'm not invited to the next raid. So it actually is quite different.

I don't know if thats really that miserable a way to live life. Would you say it was 'miserable' if you said 'I hope this raid ends by 8, so I can make my daughter's concert on time' ?

It's miserable to find yourself in the position of considering rearranging events in your day-to-day life to accommodate a computer game. Honestly if I were to tell that story to the average person on the street I'm pretty sure they would consider me to be quite pathetic for even considering it. Really? I'm going to let my kid down so I can play a freaking game?

The truly miserable way to live life are the people that simply don't value their friends' time.

I value my friends' time and that's why I don't like to raid. They're better off finding someone who doesn't have to choose between family time and raid time. When that choice has to be made family time wins. If you don't feel that way you're either in a high school mindset or in need of serious counselling.

[nekobaka]

I dont care to anymore. I used to PuG normals and heroics back in WotLK and Cata. The introduction of LFR took a huge chunk out of the late might PuG population on my realm and I just found other more engaging games to play rather than deal with the toxicity of LFR. I dont have a problem with guilds in general and the friendships I had developed in guilds is what got me to buy WotLK, Cata, and MoP. Being a late night player in my experience results in more flakiness of other players along with it being harder to replace flaky players. I join a guild and raid with a set group for stability and other perks it brings with it and if you dont have that stability then no purpose in adhering to a schedule.

[Keyblader]

I used to raid with a close-nit guild, couple of the hardocre players quit/ joined another guild. I still play, want to raid, have the time, just am nervous to get close to a new group of people :/

[Ronduwil]

I dont care to anymore. I used to PuG normals and heroics back in WotLK and Cata. The introduction of LFR took a huge chunk out of the late might PuG population on my realm and I just found other more engaging games to play rather than deal with the toxicity of LFR.

I hate to break it to you but, "Oooh! LFR is so awesome that I'm going to forego Normal raiding to devote more time to it," said no one ever. What is it about LFR that players found so appealing? Was it the trolls who initiate those wipes? Was it the subpar loot? Was it the reduced loot rates? What is so appealing about LFR that drew the masses who previously lined up to raid with you away? If you found more engaging games to play then I'm happy for you, but put the blame where it belongs. LFR didn't kill raiding for you. The massive jump in raid difficulty did that.