Why don't you raid normal/heroic?

[Heladys]

I've done hardcore raiding, now I raid flex. While hardcore can be exciting given a number of people with the same mentality and approach and effort, what I have found more important to me is friends. That's not to say you can't have friends in a hardcore environment, but I won't be tossing my friends to raid hardcore. Not all my friends are even capable of maintaining normal raiding.

Heck, by this point it's debatable whether I remain capable of or even interested in the additional challenge even if friends weren't a larger issue.

[Olvim]

I raid normals, but no longer heroics. Years of hardcore raiding and PRESSING kills have taken their toll. I simply don't care anymore. I also grew up, graduated from college, and got a real job. I don't have the time to raid 5-6 days a week.

[melodramocracy]

As far as I can tell this has never actually happened.

This doesn't surprise me in the least.

[dryankem]

So, why don't you partake in structured raiding?

Can you not commit to any form of schedule, be it a small commitment or large?
Are you not interested in the harder difficulties in a game?
Can you not find other players to raid with?
Are you afraid of, or personally not good enough to participate in the harder difficulties?
Do the rewards, and the prospect of a stronger character not interest you?

Zero interest in it honestly.

1) I don't want to commit to any form of schedule, although I would be willing to commit an hour a week but only when I feel like it.
2) I like a challenge but difficult for the sake of difficult isn't fun to me. I'm happy doing LFR and enjoyed doing the Tol Barad raid bosses but when things get too challenging or take too long they lose the element of fun IMO.
3) Could but I'd rather stick in my pathetically small guild with my friends
4) No I can compete with very well geared players, I research my class and generally try. I may not be good enough for heroics but I can give many normal raiders a run for their money
5) Yes but it comes down to what I'm willing to commit to, hours stuck on vent with the same people every week isn't that appealing.

[maulgryve]

I only do LFR to see the story when my arena partner is not online.

[SirMeo]

I started the thread in the first place to understand why people choose LFR in the first place, as i believe when you're taking part in that activity, you're no longer aiming to enjoy a game.

Hahaha no. While some people think they've "winning the game" when they play highest difficulty raids, but really the thing is that there are only goals you set yourself. I mostly like collecting cats and mounts (sadly no cat mounts, panthers don't count) and goofing off in lower lvl dungeons and glitching myself through Karazhan walls to do some exploration I was never intended to do. I like that lot more than I like scheduled raiding, but since I also like to progress my character I do LFR and valor collecting (and it makes old content even easier)

(Before someone says NOT SOCIAL!! i do like have friends tagging on those runs -- me and my friend ran UP like mad until we got the drake for both of us, even if we could've both soloed the instance separately.)

The "to me" is the key part.
You like hard content and it's ok.
I don't have the energy or time or skill or whatever for that content and it's also ok.

I wish people would understand this and stop pushing me and people like me to raid content simply because they themselves think that's the best part of the game. Even when I raided I often had these "ugh I have to log on at this time, it's been a long day and I don't want to" moments. Towards the end I was HAPPY if a raid was called off early so I could log off and hang out with friends instead.

[TS26]

Already done normal/heroic. Stopped after ulduar - right after we killed mimiron's hm if I recall correctly. Realized it's basically the same thing that keeps repeating over and over. Just got bored of it and can no longer justify the time it takes to raid. The rewards simply aren't enough anymore. 2-4 nights a week for epics that gets replaced the next tier.It's too much.

Heck even with LFR, the rewards don't interest me enough.

[Keldion]

Heroic raiding tends to cause divisions in my 25m guild, as not everyone who raids normal is capable of heroics. We devote 8 hours to raiding over two nights a week, and it is better for us to maintain a positive environment by avoiding stress brought about by heroic progression. The 25m group plays to see the content and conquer it, not to burn itself out in a rat race or to acquire bragging rights.

Blizzard's decision to link 10/25 man raid lockouts together also puts an enormous burden upon the minority of us who decide to pursue heroics; in order for 10 people to pursue progression for our guild, we must also create and maintain alts who can stand on their two feet in the 25m group.

This hasn't stopped me from pursuing heroic fights in Mists, but should serve as insight as to why 25 man groups may not be doing heroic content as a whole.

[Deleted]

This doesn't surprise me in the least.

I'm sorry, I don't remember the part where a mob of casuals stormed Blizzard HQ and made them sit through a powerpoint explaining what LFR was and demanding they implement it.

[Pheros]

To answer OPs questions, it's basically being unable to commit to a regular schedule + my availability is super strange. I mostly play mornings / midday. Too much family stuff going on in the evenings.

[Olvim]

Already done normal/heroic. Stopped after ulduar - right after we killed mimiron's hm if I recall correctly. Realized it's basically the same thing that keeps repeating over and over. Just got bored of it and can no longer justify the time it takes to raid. The rewards simply aren't enough anymore. 2-4 nights a week for epics that gets replaced the next tier.It's too much.

Heck even with LFR, the rewards don't interest me enough.

I agree with this. Even though I still raid normal, this is the first raid tier in the last 6 I've chosen to do so. I did DS and MSV once when they were current content because I want to see them; but that's it. I'm raiding this tier because I found a casual raid guild with cool people AND because they finally added a reward worth going for that is only available if you complete SOO prior to the next tier; wolf mount.

[TheWindWalker]

I used to raid normal/heroic but that began after I moved back in with my parents. Getting enough privacy to do so was always stressful. Now I have a job, so I can afford to buy a laptop and maybe even fix up a storage building as a "man cave" but now it's time that's a problem. Simple as that. Having a job and raiding don't usually go well together and since I'll never be first shift and my raids would also be in the early night, I either can't make them or I just don't feel like dealing with more stress when I get home.

[SodiumChloride]

The issue is that the 'toxic' crowd he's referring to is generally not satisfied with what they relegate themselves to in-game. They see other content they're generally unwilling to participate in, and demand that it be modified to fit their current gaming behavior.

Well ... Given that they are paying Blizzard for entertainment, don't see what's wrong with making requests.

[Strafir]

Because they are beyond my level of competence, and personally failing is not fun.

I suspect this (or fear of this) is the most common reason, even if people won't admit it.

I find your honesty admirable and that you've pinpointed the root causes of this issue. It's just a cold fact that competent and genuinely interested players will sooner or later find themselves in a high end guild because they've worked hard when the cesspool players will stick to cesspool guilds. It's just as painful to read all the "I could do it if I wanted" excuses as it is to read the incredible amount of people saying that vanilla and tbc raiding ruined them when the raiding scene has dramatically changed in the past few years and your last experience was 5+ years ago.

It is undeniable that one of the biggest reasons why games like League of Legends, Warcraft and whatever first person shooter suffers from such a "toxic" environment is because the majority of the playerbase lives in great great denial and isn't willing to accept the fact that they really do suck, and the companies behind the games are scarred sh*tless to grab them by the collar and give them a reality check.

I feel very sorry for longtime subscribers who have screwed themselves over by not taking the time to make proper friends and work their way into a social group worth playing with, because it is the number one reason I keep buying gametime and getting to raids on time. I couldn't care less if we had to raid some old rehashed instance if I got to do it with the people that make me laugh and I know I can rely on to give their 100% when it matters.

Normal content really isn't all that complicated or time consuming when you surround yourself with players worth playing with.

[schwank05]

I also hate progression raiding, I don't want to spend hours wiping over and over again to same boss. I dont want to do bosses I dont care about. So I am much happier doing like I did on my Druid last xpac coming in after DS was on farm to replace the old tank and get geared up and then quit until next xpac.

[land]

I especially don't want to deal with their bullshit, drama, moronic talk, whine and all the other things that naturally come with those "tight-knit" gaming communities.

Wow, way to be negative about life. Damn, I love playing with my buddies in guild, couldn't imagine playing wow without their company.

[Louis CK]

I also hate progression raiding, I don't want to spend hours wiping over and over again to same boss. I dont want to do bosses I dont care about. So I am much happier doing like I did on my Druid last xpac coming in after DS was on farm to replace the old tank and get geared up and then quit until next xpac.

I'm not being a smartass here, I promise. I'm genuinely interested in the following questions, because they're things I've never quite understood:

1) What is the appeal of gearing up and quitting? If you don't enjoy playing, and/or don't intend to actually use the gear for anything, then why do it in the first place?

2) If you don't like raiding, the bosses, and have no intention of using the gear from said bosses, why would you even bother with going in even if it's farm content?

I'm not suggesting you should play a certain way or another, or telling you what you should or shouldn't do, I couldn't give a shit less. I'm really just curious what the appeal is of doing things in a game you don't want to do for rewards you don't want to use. And after doing all of these things you don't want to do for rewards you don't want to use, quitting.

[schwank05]

Honestly I have no Idea, I am fine with farming normal. But todays "Heroic" raids just dont interest me. I guess I like to have my character's look all bad ass and what not and like them to be all that they can be. I really don't have a good answer for you I guess.

Its just something I have done for years I guess hard to break the habbit.

[Strafir]

I also hate progression raiding, I don't want to spend hours wiping over and over again to same boss. I dont want to do bosses I dont care about. So I am much happier doing like I did on my Druid last xpac coming in after DS was on farm to replace the old tank and get geared up and then quit until next xpac.

I feel disgusted that someone genuinely thinks its okay to act this way and disrespect 9 other players without feeling even a little remorse.

[Louis CK]

Honestly I have no Idea, I am fine with farming normal. But todays "Heroic" raids just dont interest me. I guess I like to have my character's look all bad ass and what not and like them to be all that they can be. I really don't have a good answer for you I guess.

Its just something I have done for years I guess hard to break the habbit.

Fair enough haha