Old talent trees or new talent options

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
Are you planning to keep the current spec and talent system in the expansion? Cause I, for one, love it!
While I can't talk about future expansions, overall we are happy with the current spec and talent design. (Source)
you did especially good job with the mage 90 talents
Like many of our systems, there is certainly room for improvement on specific talents. The system overall is a keeper though. (Source)

The new talents are way too stripped compared to old one, it used to be fun while leveling. now it's (15 more )
We think the new talents are better overall, but they do make leveling slightly less rewarding. (Source)
The question is whether talents are supposed to add max level customization or leveling rewards. We went with the former. (Source)

while the 3 or 4 people here like the new talent design the 5 million who quit didnt, as well as millions in game
If something that seems so obvious to you is not obvious to others, at least consider that it, in fact, might not be true.

Whoopie do, Mage that tweeted gc likes the system and probably never used the old system or vanilla/tbc/wotlk.

The whole talent trees are awful and boring and it infuriates me more than it should that just a stupid system exists.

All I want is talent trees isn't sssssh boring to use and actually allows my charcter to play differently and not just in 3 identical ways and the illusion of choice.

Without swearing this annoys me so much.

A great improvement with the talent system would be:
~ Introduce a visual path while levelling so characters can see where their talent points are getting spent - even if they have no control over this themselves (idiotic system). The spell book isn't enough.
- Allow players to skip talents and backtrack in the new system. Maybe I actually want two mobility talents, maybe I want that choice and im willing to give up a "better" talent to get it.

These two reasons alone are why the old system was so much better. I find it annoying that people and blizzard can't understand that the feeling of playing the game is deteriorating even if it sometimes appears to be a logical improvement. A game is ment to be an emotional experiance, that's how you became entertained, and immersed. It is not just about doing a job better, many people treat wow like a career and not a game.

The drop in subs is partially to do with the emotional experiance of playing the game is destroyed and there is no longer a community or a connection or personification between the player and character, because you can no longer customise it it no longer feels as if it is your and it feels boring to play as a result.

[Deleted]

"Talents that gave 1% crit were fun"
"The old trees gave you choice"
Siigh, this thread is already going bad.

My specs went from 'Patch released > respec and keep it till the next patch' to 'Let's see what talents I prefer today'.

Yupp, agree.

[Terahertz]

I'd rather have 3 viable options than ten +2% dmg talents. Also since every good mechanic from former talent trees is a spec related passive skill in Mop, I see zero reasons to go back to old talent trees.

Difference between old talent system and present talent system is that most classes can pick a talent as a healer a DPS can take as well without any real difference. Take monks for example where literally every talent does the same thing whether you're a healer or not. We didn't have that in the old talent system. The abilities that stayed the same were the ones that were baseline, but now nearly every talent seems baseline.

I'd like to see more talents like the priest ones. Not specifically what they do, but the concept of each talent doing something different for each spec.

[Deleted]

The old players will still love the old talent trees (as i do). The new guys will love the new talent trees. Maybe it is nostalgia but i for one would definitely like to see the old design/ new fresh design.

I am a old player and the new system is 10x better.
The old system was boring and offered no choice.

[Hitei]

"Talents that gave 1% crit were fun"
"The old trees gave you choice"
Siigh, this thread is already going bad.

My specs went from 'Patch released > respec and keep it till the next patch' to 'Let's see what talents I prefer today'.

This.
I had pretty much the exact same rogue talents the entirety of Vanilla and BC.

At least now I can play around with nightstalker/subter, shadowstep/brust of speed, shuriken/mark of death/anticipation depending on my mood or what I'm doing at any given time.

I'd really rather not have to go back to a time where I had to spec into 5% parry as a DPS, individual talents that required by the weapons I had, and became useless without that type of weapon (mace spec, dagger spec, etc.), and the ability to not be seen in stealth and sap without being removed from it.

The old players will still love the old talent trees (as i do). The new guys will love the new talent trees. Maybe it is nostalgia but i for one would definitely like to see the old design/ new fresh design.

I am a old player and the new system is 10x better.
The old system was boring and offered no choice.

As this guy said.
Please don't pretend you speak for old players.

[Aleksej89]

I love the new MoP talent system.

I have been playing since vanilla and the old style of "numerous boring filler talents that provide +1% hit chance" are HORRIBLE...

[Kanubis]

Talents have always been about choosing between the theorycrafted 'correct' spec or getting abusive shit in game for getting it wrong.

At least it's quicker now and there's a couple of genuinely optional tiers.

[Fiftyonred]

Yep. It felt like your character actually got stronger as you leveled. The new one is entirely based on endgame, which is fun but not as immersive.

Though in reality, that is simply not correct.

Yes, you might be able to go from 3/5 % crit to 4/5 % crit in talents when leveling up, but every stat on your gear simultaneously got weaker, as e.g. X amount of crit rating required for 1% increase in effective crit, would increase with your levels.

As a result, unless you had heirlooms, which is to be considered a bonus and not a prerequisite for leveling, the practical implication of going from level 45 - 46 is that the effective value of your overall stats decreases.

[Vintersol]

I love the new MoP talent system.

I have been playing since vanilla and the old style of "numerous boring filler talents that provide +1% hit chance" are HORRIBLE...

1 click every level.... HORROR!

Yes, you might be able to go from 3/5 % crit to 4/5 % crit in talents when leveling up, but every stat on your gear simultaneously got weaker, as e.g. X amount of crit rating required for 1% increase in effective crit, would increase with your levels.

Don't forget, that crit and hit was percent based in classic. So there were no real rating requirements that changed with levelups.

[Shinrael]

Love the new one. Old one was garbage dressed up to look pretty.

I've never understood why people dislike the new one. I mean, really? Was picking that +1%crit REALLY that exciting to you?

You want my honest opinion? Yes. It was.

And to be specific, I like both systems. Both have cons, both have pros.

I want to have both combined. :/ And more glyphs ( especially minor ones )

[Raiju]

Though in reality, that is simply not correct.

Yes, you might be able to go from 3/5 % crit to 4/5 % crit in talents when leveling up, but every stat on your gear simultaneously got weaker, as e.g. X amount of crit rating required for 1% increase in effective crit, would increase with your levels.

As a result, unless you had heirlooms, which is to be considered a bonus and not a prerequisite for leveling, the practical implication of going from level 45 - 46 is that the effective value of your overall stats decreases.

I understand how stats work thanks. but what I said is correct, because the reality is that people FEEL stronger when you put that 1% crit is. Yes, in reality you need more stats per level for same rating, this doesn't mean you aren't progressing though. You get stronger 45-46 even with the same gear on.

[Reyzzz]

And according to one of the tweets millions hate the new system.

Did you even think about that before you wrote it?

In my opinion, the new system is superior for max level characters.

[Halyon]

I don't get the hate, the new one is more streamlined and you can pick a skill based on what you need it for. With the old trees you had literally only 1 single choice for a spec build for many classes or you were inefficient. Lots of 'trash' skills, fillers etc.

I prefer the new ones, I seriously don't get the hate.

[Djuntas]

Old was much more RPG like, fitted wow good. Just cut down abit on useless talents.

[Raiju]

I don't get the hate, the new one is more streamlined and you can pick a skill based on what you need it for. With the old trees you had literally only 1 single choice for a spec build for many classes or you were inefficient. Lots of 'trash' skills, fillers etc.

I prefer the new ones, I seriously don't get the hate.

We didn't have only one spec before and we don't have no trash spells or filler now. STOP SPREADING THESE MYTHS.

[ebah]

New talents tried to make talents "fun" and not able to do cookie cutter builds, but failed....

Old talents ftw!

[LTCrystallite]

The older system would have worked better if Blizz didn't keep it as a mostly mandatory way to specialize. Most of the talent tree talents were either things you needed for the spec to even function or small value increases that felt kind of negligible. I liked when my Shammy had 10% armor/30% movement reduction, and I didn't always have to talent it for PvP. In PvE, that's kind of where the problem lied. You just normally went for the same talents, but I swapped mine a lot depending on what I was doing, and the differences were there.

The new system isn't bad though, it's just going to be bad for at least another expac to me because of what they decided to put in there for certain classes (Mages are forced to use DoTs, there IS a best DPS talent depend on the fight you're going to do). It's just since there are only 3 talents per tier and 6 total tiers, and when you take into account the ones you won't use because you simply hate them (Conductivity for Shamans for example), there's really not that much OOMPH in it just yet.

It IS a good system, but the talents are going to need some major tweaking over time.

[oplawlz]

Why does everyone keep harping on the fact that the old talent trees were implemented poorly, and suggest that because of this implementation the design was bad? The old talent trees provided a means of true customization: you were not locked into putting any specific number of talents points into a single tree, thus allowing you to cherry pick what you want from several, especially while levelling.

The fact that Blizzard padded the trees with certain boring choices such as haste or %crit was a result of unimaginative developers. If you want to know what a well-imagined talent tree could look like, try checking out the wotlk DK trees, especially at launch. You could tank with all of them, they all had perks and situational skills, and you could use nearly any combination successfully if you knew what you were doing and itemized properly.

Instead of iterating on this, Bliz decided to first neuter it in Cata with the abhorrent mastery system, then completely remove it in favor of an extremely lazy set of choices, some of which weren't even re-imagined, just forcing a class to choose between things they could use together previously (poor rogues).

[Akraen]

I don't care personally. I just hate switching every damn fight, same goes for glyphs. It is tedious. I've appointed a secretary to remind me to recast frost armor each pull.

[Snuglz]

I like the current system I just want more of it. Add another 1 or 2 talents into each tree, and lets try to add some customization to it. Almost like in Diablo where you can change how the spell works in a couple of different ways.

So for instance Storm Bolt for warriors. Have three different runes/talent glyphs or w/e you want to call it where it changes either how it works or what it looks like. I wouldn't know if it would be smart to add like real effects to it bc of balancing issues but if they were to make it hit extra targets in a area/ or give it a longer stun/ or add a debuff to the target for so many sec. If they could actually balance this out I would like it but I like theorycrafting so I would dive into all the numbers behind which would be best and rotations.

The other way to go about it is the change it visually. Give us more options in our talents to change up our char and make them more unique, So my stormbolt could get a glyph or w/e to transform it into a huge ligthing bolt I throw or something lol. You get the idea though.

On a side note. I am hoping they can add some more customizing features into the game kinda like the lock green fire quest but a little more elaborate. Give us a way to go out and customize our character by having to go out into the world and do certain task to obtain it. So if I want to gain a glyph to change my dragon roar into a bigger looking effect then I have to go out and do this or that task.