why would this game need demon hunters? We allready have a hunter class ... It would be a sad day imo if there isn't a better option.
why would this game need demon hunters? We allready have a hunter class ... It would be a sad day imo if there isn't a better option.
Hunters have nothing in common with demon hunters except the word "hunter".
Demon Hunters are more related to Warlocks and Rogues than Hunters. Demon Hunters would be like if you took a Combat Rogue, gave them Demonology's skills, and had them build Fury by using weapon strikes.
Demon Hunters, if you're thinking of the Diablo style ones, are more closely related to the Dark Ranger.
It didn't happen because the game wasn't ready for any new class. It wasn't until Lich King that we saw the first new class, and that was about 4 years into WoW's life cycle. I think if Blizzard could have added a new class, they would've added Demon Hunters. It didn't happen because the game wasn't ready for them. With the Talent revamps, Spell homogenization and clearly defined Specs, there is a higher possibility for any new class than ever before.
My thoughts basicly are that ... we already have hunters... and imho i dont really think a demo hunter will be that diffrent from... rogue/warlock gameplay... like monk was quite diffrent in the way spells work a bit :P
But idk running with glaives will be awesome but i dont really think they will implement it in wow... next weekend we shall see !
No more new classes please. It just creates a head ache because the new class is always always OP the entire first expansion of its existence.
Focus on more raids, more dungeons, more interesting ways to fill our time.
Higher possibility for a new class but Demon Hunters were collateral damage in the Warlock rework. Instead of pushing Demonology into the niche of "master summoner with an army of demons" they decided to go for a hybrid build of the master summoner and the classic Demon Hunter, stripping every aspect, sans warglaives, and throwing them to Warlocks. And even the warglaives can be fixed by adding a visual effect to Dark Apotheosis, giving the appearance of dual warglaives to go with the demon wings.
Which is why again, they make perfect sense as a Warlock 4th spec. But as a standalone class, they were killed by Blizzard in 5.0 releasing Demonology the way it was released. Things like Bards, Tinkers, and Dark Rangers are still possible but the Demon Hunter is pretty much off the table barring another rebuild to Demonology.
S5 DKs were not a whole expansion.
Are monks OP?
- - - Updated - - -
There's nothing in common, certainly not 'every aspect'.
I'll do this again, because it needs to be in every page of every DH thread, apparently:
Why Demon Hunters and Warlocks are NOT THE SAME
Demon Hunters <-> Warlocks
Many are Night Elves<-> Can NOT be a Night Elf
Are melee combatants <-> Are ranged casters
Are primary melee combatants who excel at a special martial fighting art <-> Wear dresses and wave sticks around
Dual wield warglaives and have evasive powers to tank with <-> No twice, and then also no
Despise demons, slay them <-> Date their succubi, constantly have a demon with them, sometimes two
Cool sleek emo look <-> Scary fiery emo look
Ritually blind themselves <-> Wear funny hats
Can turn into a demon, at least Illidan can <-> In lore, copied this ability because it seemed powerful
So, one of these things- the one thing that warlocks copied from demon hunters- is a thing that they have in common.
Last edited by Talen; 2013-11-03 at 01:07 AM.
So two classes should be able to have virtually identical aesthetics and abilities just so some Demon Hunter fanboys can get their rocks off? With that logic, Crusaders make perfect sense as a new WoW class as a 1h/shield DPS. Nevermind that they would share a ton of crossover with Paladins.
All they have to do for Demon Hunters is simply make Dark Apotheosis its own spec. Activate and grow demon wings, sac the pet, get the warglaive visual, and become a demon infused melee fighter/tank with melee combat skills and spell based mitigation. It makes significantly more sense design wise than adding a class that does the same thing as another that already exists.
It's one thing to have a few similarities like say a Hunter vs a Dark Ranger. It's another for them to be basically identical as a Demonologist under the effects of Dark Apotheosis is essentially a Demon Hunter without glaives. Hell the glyph itself is even called glyph of Demon Hunting with visuals and melee combat to support it.
Granted, I was one as well prior to MoP. But given the direction Blizzard decided to go in with the Demonology class, it doesn't make sense from a design PoV to add it in the game. It would just be too much redundancy and repetition in class design. A little overlap is ok but overlap to the extent of Demon Hunter vs Warlock just don't work.
All that takes to change is an expansion on the race combo system. There is nothing inherent to Night Elfs that prevents them becoming Warlocks. And if Blizzard decrees that the manipulation of demons and demonic magic amongst Night Elfs developed into the Demon Hunter aspect, the argument is moot.
Same difference exists between Feral druids and Balance druids. One aspect trains for melee combat, another for spell based ranged.Are melee combatants <-> Are ranged casters
And so are no more different than differing specs of some other classes.Are primary melee combatants who excel at a special martial fighting art <-> Wear dresses and wave sticks around
Whereas Warlocks can wield a single 1H sword and have the same evasive powers - as Evasion is essentially the Dodge mechanic. You give the DH Spec the ability to dual wield swords, and this argument is again null and void.Dual wield warglaives and have evasive powers to tank with <-> No twice, and then also no
Goes to motivation which is never part of class design. You assume that Demon Hunters can never be bad, nor Warlocks good. You assume Warlocks can never learn the art of controlling demons to fight fire with fire and may hate demons and their kind.Despise demons, slay them <-> Date their succubi, constantly have a demon with them, sometimes two
A difference that doesn't really exist on a class based level.Cool sleek emo look <-> Scary fiery emo look
Non canon lore that is contradicted even in the RPG it comes from vs silly argument designed to show how limited the argument against is.Ritually blind themselves <-> Wear funny hats
Can turn into a demon, at least Illidan can <-> In lore, copied this ability because it seemed powerful
Meaning in gameplay there is a crossover of the classes most iconic defining move.
A DH class isn't going to happen. Its six years too late and was unlikely even for TBC. Since then, there has been too much porting over the SH stuff into the Warlock.
What it comes down to is simple - the only argument against Warlocks getting DHs as a 4th spec is that some players would prefer to see them as a distinct separate class. Something almost certainly that is never ever going to happen. Blizzard is certainly not going to water down the Warlock class for a player class concept that doesn't exist, nor would crating a class from the ground up really be suitable given the baggage that comes with the terminology
EJL
Last edited by Talen; 2013-11-03 at 01:12 AM.
Except it doesn't make sense for Warlocks to melee at all, considering they have nothing to support the gameplay. If you were to make the Warlock into a melee spec, they would require as much work as it would to create a new class. You need to give them specific gear (which atm Cloth does not support), a full range of melee abilities, new weapons, and more.
Demonology gameplay is irrelevant to what a Demon Hunter's gameplay could consist of. Demon Hunters don't exist yet. Any discussion on what already exists in WoW is relevant to classes that exist. Warlock Metamorphosis is a limited power up ability, sorta like Boomkin Eclipse. That's all it is.
Now imagine if Demon Hunters had multiple Demon Forms they could change into, similarly to a Druid. Take on aspects of a Pit Lord, now you have cleaving attacks and higher health. Turn into a Shivarra, granting extra attacks and dodging gracefully. Take on the form of a Nathrezim and gain spellcasting abilities, including spells that put enemies to sleep. These would all be something Warlocks can't do, and it still conforms to the idea that the Demon Hunter is a master of using Demonic powers to augment themselves.
Demon Hunter won't, and never will be a class in WoW. It's too similar to the Warlock and it would hardly feel different. Also, Demon Hunters are from Azeroth, not Draenor.
Aren't you making an assumption that Blizzard can't give them what they'd need as part of the 4th spec?
An argument which ignores the work that has already been done. Even if you want to discount the existing abilities, work was carried out before MoP launched and that work will still be around for Blizzard to draw from.If you were to make the Warlock into a melee spec, they would require as much work as it would to create a new class.
Or appropriate skills to make use of it. Or make them a "hero" spec with suitable gear available from Level 90 onwards. Or bring back some of the od, gear that di have the right stats. And so on.You need to give them specific gear (which atm Cloth does not support)
Weapon already exist. And new melee abilities would come with the new spec.a full range of melee abilities, new weapons, and more.
Then they'd still have a huge crossover with Warlocks and so be unsuited for a place as a distinct class. As a spec of a new class...sure. But what would the unifying theme be? And could the DH draw upon its iconic abilities without that demon them Warlocks have? Sure...maybe you could get Demon Hunter, Blademaster and Dark Ranger into the game as a class...but woudl it still be WOWs DH?Now imagine if Demon Hunters had multiple Demon Forms they could change into, similarly to a Druid.
EJL