6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Deleted]

@advanta: Be specific and stop with the hyperbole.

Of course there are spellpower/damage buffs and such, just as there are 300% haste buffs that are spellstealable from the very bosses in your video. This is not the first time Blizz will have to have 'addressed' an ability like this (looking at you here, Reck-bomb, Spellsteal in general, keeping AoE debuffs and hearthstoning, dismissing/resummoning buffed pets, and everything else this has ever happened to ever)

[Akraen]

Maybe it's intended and that's why frost shows up as higher than arc/fire on Noxxic! Haha.

Dumbest argument I've heard in ages. Anyway shouldn't this topic be about 6.0 discussion, not some current bug? And yeah, it is a bug. /eyeroll

[Deleted]

Can you explain what is actually happening?

and post a WCL/WoL of you doing it?

Already have done on my channel. I don't want to wind up the moderators
more than I have already.

[Akraen]

Can reproduce this by doing the Neptulon/Ozumat encounter, generating icicles, using AT to give yourself more time if you need.

This is actually quite dangerous and should be fixed immediately.

[Deleted]

@advanta: Be specific and stop with the hyperbole.

[/i])

Your tone, and that of others in the thread, is rather antagonistic and aggressive,
disproportionately so since we are discussing a minor point of theory in a video game.

I am not motivated to discuss this further, the genuinely interested should be
able to work it out from the information I've already posted.

[durrtygoodz]

Your tone, and that of others in the thread, is rather antagonistic and aggressive,
disproportionately so since we are discussing a minor point of theory in a video game.

I am not motivated to discuss this further, the genuinely interested should be
able to work it out from the information I've already posted.

Ok so I just watched the explanation video and as expected, you used a spellsteal gimmick to ramp up an icicle then kill a boss. That's a straight up exploit. They'll fix the mechanic that allows you to do this but they're not going to straight up change icicles because of it. Nobody in their right mind is going to use this to kill an actual raid boss, it's gunna result in an instant suspension for them and also probably their raid team. As Kuni said, if Icicles fade on loading screens then it's instantly been fixed.

[Narsha]

I checked out the vid, how that is proof frost mastery is broken and will get an overhaul I do not understand; you found a way to buff up the icicles and then bring them somewhere with you. I agree with what you said in the video it will probably be hotfixed soon, but why you argued it cant be hotfixed I don't get. But nice trick!

Edit: Oh snap too slow!

[Alakallanar]

Ok so I just watched the explanation video and as expected, you used a spellsteal gimmick to ramp up an icicle then kill a boss. That's a straight up exploit. They'll fix the mechanic that allows you to do this but they're not going to straight up change icicles because of it. Nobody in their right mind is going to use this to kill an actual raid boss, it's gunna result in an instant suspension for them and also probably their raid team. As Kuni said, if Icicles fade on loading screens then it's instantly been fixed.

That is also the fix I would expect. However it would hurt frost mages a bit on some bosses like Garrosh.

[durrtygoodz]

That is also the fix I would expect. However it would hurt frost mages a bit on some bosses like Garrosh.

They could make it that loading screens that happen during an encounter won't lose the icicles. Or maybe just make spellsteal not take that buff from those mobs.

[Alakallanar]

They could make it that loading screens that happen during an encounter won't lose the icicles. Or maybe just make spellsteal not take that buff from those mobs.

Making spellsteal not work on that buff won't help much. There are many others which, while not quite as powerful, would still be too much.

Making people lose icicles only during loading screens outside of encounters would be the best solution, but also a nontrivial one. Thats why I except the simpler fix, at least as a quick solution, that will hurt frost mages a bit on bosses with loading screens.

[Narsha]

They did it easily on spoils; you can spellsteal the buff but it wont work on yourself as it does for the mobs.

[Deleted]

I always wanted mirror image for arcane to be more like a pet. It would copy all that you do, but for less damage while being controlable. Possible split a % damage taken between it to help pvp arc. However what i'd really want for it would it to have a cd that would swap locations between you and the image, while also swapping any current targets that may be targeting each, like a hunter's missdirect.

Uhm no thank you i dont want Arcane the be the new Frost with permanent add. MI is fine by my oppinion. They tried to "add" miror image to us as a proc from the 2p set from Firelands, where if i remmeber it right it they actualy did the same damage as my MI copies and it was dealing quite good amount of damage for a 10 second mirror image.

What would be more intresting to mess with MI is if it can be combined with Arcane power. You messing with the powers of arcane makes temporal copies of you for the duration of the AP witch mimic your action and do 15% of your damage done split between the images (each image will do 5% of your dps). Yeah i know it will make AP way too powerfull cooldown, but the hell with it. I always forget tho use MI after the initial pull so i prefer it to be combined with some of the other Arcane GCDs.
P.S. and no i cba to think what to do with MI for the other specs x)

[Deleted]

Making spellsteal not work on that buff won't help much. There are many others which, while not quite as powerful, would still be too much.

Making people lose icicles only during loading screens outside of encounters would be the best solution, but also a nontrivial one. Thats why I except the simpler fix, at least as a quick solution, that will hurt frost mages a bit on bosses with loading screens.

As I stated earlier in the thread, removing icicles through loading screens does not resolve the problem.

There's a way to get supercharged icicles at Garrosh without leaving the encounter that makes the raid a farce.
There must be dozens of other instances with the same problem.

It is not even something deliberate, it is something that is happening all the time and people generally don't notice.

Nor would loading screens stop people building up super-powered icicles at in-world.

The fundamental problem is the damage-based-on-damage component of icicles. Remember combustion was effectively
removed because it was doing millions in damage in raids without any exploits at all.

[durrtygoodz]

It is not even something deliberate, it is something that is happening all the time and people generally don't notice.

And yet you still ain't linking logs

[Deleted]

Uhm no thank you i dont want Arcane the be the new Frost with permanent add. MI is fine by my oppinion. They tried to "add" miror image to us as a proc from the 2p set from Firelands, where if i remmeber it right it they actualy did the same damage as my MI copies and it was dealing quite good amount of damage for a 10 second mirror image.

What would be more intresting to mess with MI is if it can be combined with Arcane power. You messing with the powers of arcane makes temporal copies of you for the duration of the AP witch mimic your action and do 15% of your damage done split between the images (each image will do 5% of your dps). Yeah i know it will make AP way too powerfull cooldown, but the hell with it. I always forget tho use MI after the initial pull so i prefer it to be combined with some of the other Arcane GCDs.
P.S. and no i cba to think what to do with MI for the other specs x)

We had a set bonus in ICC IIRC that increased the damage we did while Images were up. Now, while that's not particularly interesting, there COULD be a spec unique (if Images were to become a talent) effect while they were up. For instance:

Frost: While Mirror Images are active, your Ice Lances deal 50% more damage (or Frostbolt has a 25% increased chance to proc Fingers of Frost)

Fire: While Mirror Images are active, your Inferno Blast CD resets every time you score a critical strike (or Pyroblast! deals 15% more damage)

Arcane: While Mirror Images are active, your Arcane Blast has a 25% extra chance to proc Arcane Missiles (or The effects of your Arcane Blast are increased by 25% [ala ToT set bonus])

I just farted these out so don't come in and tell me they're unbalanced. The idea is just 'While Images are up x happens'.

[Deleted]

And yet you still ain't linking logs

I don't respond very well to demands. (leaves thread)

[durrtygoodz]

I don't respond very well to demands. (leaves thread)

I haven't "demanded" anything. If you come to a forum with a claim, you need things to back it up. You linked your videos, cool. You then made another claim about this happening on Garrosh. But you don't have any evidence of this. I ain't trying to be rude but it's hard to discuss things/take something seriously when there's no evidence.

[Akraen]

This is just stupid.

Any buff that adds damage when FB/FFB generates icicles works for this. Advanta hasn't discovered anything new. All he's done is brought awareness to something they haven't considered-- that some people will actually make these icicles then zone somewhere.

I've known about Ozumat and a few others, but I never thought it was practical because you'd never get summoned and pull a boss in time to make practical use of it. Or so I thought. I never considered world bosses before, or even a 25m raid team that might really work hard to organize this on a boss pull.

It's something I have no interest in because it isn't fair play, but now that the world knows, it needs to be fixed asap. There are a few buffs I know from TBC-era that would potentially be game shattering but it would be irresponsible to share. :P

[Deleted]

Indeed, Akraen. I just don't think anyone was a fan of the hyperbole stating Frost's mastery is going to be 'radically changed' because of this.

Spoiler: It won't. Just like Spellstealing niche buffs and being summoned didn't radically change Spellsteal.

Anyway, moving on...

[Deleted]

I haven't "demanded" anything. If you come to a forum with a claim, you need things to back it up. You linked your videos, cool. You then made another claim about this happening on Garrosh. But you don't have any evidence of this. I ain't trying to be rude but it's hard to discuss things/take something seriously when there's no evidence.

Ok, fair enough. You deserve a full response for a classy gesture.

The issue with Garrosh is that icicles aren't adjusting for MC properly. It makes allowances for resilience but doesn't take into consideration the fact that resilience doesn't apply to MC targets.
I'm not going to link to it because I've already had a video taken down for pissing off moderators, but if you do a search here for "strange icicle" you'll see someone registered an icicle that hit for almost a million, without any idea how that happened. This must be happening all the time, it probably gets ignored 99% of the time because people don't notice in the heat of battle.

I haven't taken logs from that fight itself (I play mainly fire in pve), but I have noticed the same phenomena repeatedly when switching from player to npc targets.

This is really just the tip of the iceberg (see what i did there, clever huh).