How long will it take to pay off the debt?

[taheen74]

I could say the same about Bush but that'd be too logical.

And Clinton, and Bush Sr, and Reagan- in other words: the debt has been around since probably before I was born (possibly my grandmother's generation).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._United_States



"Except for about a year during 1835–1836, the United States has continuously held a public debt since the US Constitution legally went into effect on March 4, 1789. Public debt as a percentage of GDP reached its highest level during Harry Truman's first presidential term, during and after World War II, but fell rapidly in the post-World War II period, and reached a low in 1973 under President Richard Nixon. Debt as a percentage of GDP has consistently increased since then, except during the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton."

[Rukentuts]

There we go. That's the ENTIRE chart without just the inconvenient bit snipped off as is the case in yours.

Yeah, instead you just snipped off the end, where it's going down.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And Clinton, and Bush Sr, and Reagan- in other words: the debt has been around since probably before I was born (possibly my grandmother's generation).

Not nearly as bad but I never got politically aware until after Bush Jr was in Office >_<

[Tradewind]

Working in the 60s must have been sweet.

[Laize]

Yeah, instead you just snipped off the end, where it's going down.

Did you not read the part in your own chart where that last bit was PROJECTED data?

Honestly, man.

[Rukentuts]

Did you not read the part in your own chart where that last bit was PROJECTED data?

Honestly, man.

Yeah, because it clearly didn't go down before the projected. Honestly man.

[Deleted]

If the USA stopped spending 57% of its budget on its military and then somehow had access to every other countries GDP, it would still not be able to pay off its debt. The interest on Americas debt is unmanageable, let alone touching the debt itself.

[Rukentuts]

The interest on Americas debt is unmanageable, let alone touching the debt itself.

It's so unimaginable it's actually budgeted!

[Deleted]

I knew it. If I were a betting man I would have won. You DON'T know what the real chart looks like.

Let's try going back a bit further, shall we? Say... back to the date I suggested. Its inception in 1938.



There we go. That's the ENTIRE chart without just the inconvenient bit snipped off as is the case in yours.

So what you're saying is, raising the minimum wage, in real terms, helped build the golden age of American economic prosperity in the 50s and 60s.

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Did you not read the part in your own chart where that last bit was PROJECTED data?

Honestly, man.

And you want to project it as going up? While advocating scrapping it altogether.

I'm sure that makes sense.

[Laize]

Yeah, because it clearly didn't go down before the projected. Honestly man.

It went down from its peak. Are you saying this is unacceptable? Or are bubbles okey dokey as long as you're the one benefiting?

You can't point to the high of a chart and then insinuate we're at the low, when really we're smack in the middle of the historic high AND low.

AND the minimum wage provides a substandard living quality.

It's far better to have a GMI.

[Tradewind]

My socialist country can beat up your socialist country.

[Laize]

So what you're saying is, raising the minimum wage, in real terms, helped build the golden age of American economic prosperity in the 50s and 60s.

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And you want to project it as going up? While advocating scrapping it altogether.

I'm sure that makes sense.

No, I'm saying scrap it because it hasn't been barely liveable since like 1980. There are far better, more elegant solutions out there.

The minimum wage was a good idea, but a failed experiment. And saying "but if we only threw more money at the problem" is the same fucking thing as House Republicans saying "If we only got rid of more regulation...". You don't buy the latter, so why would you espouse the former?

[Deleted]

most of a countries debt comes from so much WAR no?? don't know about Americas debts but the UK still owes America money from WW2 I believe too, and lots of it...
stop going to war with every cunt that might save a few quid ???
countries spend so much money they haven't got on funding wars and when it comes to doing something for your own country from say a natural disaster then they cant afford it.. boggles the mind.. or am I wrong???

[Rukentuts]

AND the minimum wage provides a substandard living quality.

You know what really provides a substandard living quality? Having a piss-poor minimum wage (while arguing to repeal it) while simultaneously hampering the already piss poor assistance programs. But it's freedom! This is what the Republicans advocate, or at least this is who they nominate. This is also why red states are behind in almost every conceivable metric to blue.

[Tradewind]

but the UK still owes America money from WW2 I believe too, and lots of it...

No that was over like 7 years ago.

[Templar 331]

Socialism – increases the power of the well connected

And the rich are not well connected in a capitalist society?

Capitalism – increases the wealth of those who provide labor, goods, or services that are in high demand. Capitalism doesn’t discriminate who makes the products and services; rather, the decision is made by consumers (you).

How many rich African Americans were there before the Civil War? Oh, right, none.

Socialism – taxes income not wealth. It also taxes punitively, the more income you
make, the higher the rate at which you are taxed (please tell me socialists how this
does not discourage upward economic mobility).

Because they are still making and bringing home more than the people making less than them. A year ago I was making half of what I'm making now. I am being taxed higher now than then. And I'm still bringing home more now than I did then.

Socialism = oppression = slavery
Capitalism = freedom = opportunity

Oh this is priceless.

You choose. I’ve made my decision.

You've made your decision to be born a, I'll assume, white male in a country and age with equal rights and opportunities for all? You do realize that we have it so good because of the evil socialism and not capitalism. We don't have 5 year old's working in factories now. Capitalism would dictate that they should be put to work if they can do the job and not be put in school sucking up our government's funds. Women can make equal pay and have job equality now. But no, you just assume that's how it will be in your perfect world of "market is never wrong" mentality. If people are willing to buy things made from slave labor, who's to say it is wrong?

[Laize]

You know what really provides a substandard living quality? Having a piss-poor minimum wage (while arguing to repeal it) while simultaneously hampering the already piss poor assistance programs. But it's freedom! This is what the Republicans advocate, or at least this is who they nominate. This is also why red states are behind in almost every conceivable metric to blue.

"Why change our approach when we can throw more money at the same problem we've been throwing money at for the last 40 years?"

[Rukentuts]

No that was over like 7 years ago.

It'd be quite interesting if countries just forgave all their conflicting debt and we could see what the real picture looked like.

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"Why change our approach when we can throw more money at the same problem we've been throwing money at for the last 40 years?"

Yeah, you keep saying that but it means absolutely nothing. The blue states are ahead of the red: in education, wealth, social mobility, etc.

[Laize]

Yeah, you keep saying that but it means absolutely nothing.

You can say it means nothing... but the facts and figures (and people living on minimum wage) say otherwise.

[Jackmoves]

I have been always a believer of a strong local and state government and a smaller less intrusive federal government

Yes I agree.

Here is the thing though, in those "socialist" nations(Scandinavia) you think got crap social mobility we collect and spend the great majority of the tax revenue locally. We do not funnel it through the central government. The income taxes we pay to the central government is just a couple of % of the total tax burden. We could actually remove the "state taxes" entirely and have a flat tax(the municipality taxes) and still remain one of the most equal countries in the world, there would not be a crazy class sociaty, that is how meaningless(as far as % of the tax revnue goes) the income taxes to the central government is. From what I've read maybe Slovenia would take the point position as the EU's most economically equal country if my country Sweden got rid of the taxes to the central government and simply had 30 percent flat income tax, we would still continue to be more equal than comparable welfare states such as Austria, Belgium and Finland.

So yeah there would not be any crazy class sociaty... and no, we are not just above the poverty line and "well fed sheeps". lol
I don't think there was a country out there that actually had a higher increase of dollar millionares last year, as far as % goes so it's perfectly possible to make money here. 70% of our households state they are more then capable of saving money each month.

The number of dollar millionaires increased in Sweden more than anywhere else in the world last year, reports news agency TT.

Sweden's strong equity market and the crown's strength against the dollar are cited as the main reasons for the growth.

IT consultant company Capgemini's Annual Wealth report suggests that the number of dollar millionaires increased in Sweden by 14.3 percent. In the rest of the world it increased by 9.2 percent to a total of 12 million individuals.

"Why dollar millionaires are growing faster in Sweden depends to some extent on the fact that the crown is strong against the dollar, but primarily it is a result of the strong performance of the stock market," says Krister Rydmark, Head of Banking and Insurance at Capgemini Consulting, which together with Royal Bank of Canada is behind the study.