Is Frost dead

[Skarssen]

I will start with a real fact
and as you can see warrior representation is worse than dk s5,
Season 5 Death Knight

@1800 - 16.84%
@2000 - 20.06%
@2200 - 21.68%

Season 14 Warrior

@1800 - 17.14%
@2000 - 20.32%
@2200 - 24.85%
do not listen the funboys who are PvE horses in that MMO DK community, as you can see more or less all about how you DK should look like, what did you solo e.t.c many of them talk just trash.
i will just add a small info about DK performance in PvE ( it is Garbage yes totally crap and even Blood DK is crap as tank in many runs).
and YES, not only frost, but also DK class is totally garbage with outdated and retarded mechanics.there are 6-8 DK players in ladder among 500 players, and that guys came here with fast grevious gear before many other players earlier and any of them play anymore. I have been playing Arena since s3 and in that season i have played over 600 matches with 3 toons warrior, rogue and UH dk and sometimes frost, i know all classes in and out.I must admit that i gave up after 80 matches on my DK frost or uh doesnt matter.
As far as i can see there will not be any big changes for that class in WoD either, to be honest Dk requires a HUGE class overhaul in many aspects like better rune system, 1 more extra rune, mobility, and survivability, but it is too much to require from Blizzard, who forgot DK class long time ago.
You can flame as much as you want, it is not only frost but also UH dead too, i have 80 resilience with 590k health in blood as UH when i am tunneled and silenced i go down like a ice piece in fire,
so i want to know how UH rules the arena?
If Darksithis with his endless PvP experience can explain the situation?
oh noo not PvE horse again, time to get a moderator who knows what he is talking about.
Thanks

Your post is completely incoherent and you are talking about PVP in what is clearly a PVE thread.

[Darsithis]

Rant

It's Darsithis, not "Darksithis".

You anecdotal evidence aside, the class is not garbage. DK's are not "forgotten" by Blizzard. My comment "unholy rules the arena" is that Unholy is a better spec for arena, if you're playing DK pvp, than either frost 2H or frost DW.

[Deleted]

I would pref UH since u have more utility.

[Skarssen]

I would pref UH since u have more utility.

How exactly? Which unholy specific ability = more utility?

[Darsithis]

I would pref UH since u have more utility.

Unholy has no more utility than frost does. All 3 specs have access to AMZ. All three have access to glyphs for DC healing + shielding (though I suppose only UH would even use it). All 3 specs can battle rez. All 3 specs can take Remorseless Winter or Chilblains.

[Boramir]

The pet stun is the only "utility" that UH offers that Frost can't.

I really can't stand when people just start a thread like this because they're too lazy to look at the other thread titles in the DK forums to see if their question can already be answered... Seriously, there has to be at least 15-20 threads that discuss the viability of the different DK specs in 5.4. (rant over)

[Vereesa]

Unholy has no more utility than frost does. All 3 specs have access to AMZ. All three have access to glyphs for DC healing + shielding (though I suppose only UH would even use it). All 3 specs can battle rez. All 3 specs can take Remorseless Winter or Chilblains.

If you wanna get technical on the matter of Chilblains, Frost has a much easier time applying it to multiple targets through constant use of Howling Blast. A good example of this would be a Siegecrafter tactic where HB's cleave off the boss is constantly slowing the stream of mines spawning.

[Darsithis]

If you wanna get technical on the matter of Chilblains, Frost has a much easier time applying it to multiple targets through constant use of Howling Blast. A good example of this would be a Siegecrafter tactic where HB's cleave off the boss is constantly slowing the stream of mines spawning.

That really only goes to prove that none of the specs is superior in terms of utility. They all shine on various fights.

[scholozon]

Unholy can easily spread chill blains with pestilence glyphed. I will agree that in frost, chill blains is basically applied passively.

[Shiira]

Frost can aoe chillblains from range, unholy can't.

[Tyrannica]

It's Darsithis, not "Darksithis".

You anecdotal evidence aside, the class is not garbage. DK's are not "forgotten" by Blizzard. My comment "unholy rules the arena" is that Unholy is a better spec for arena, if you're playing DK pvp, than either frost 2H or frost DW.

You can write this with a straight face? In MoP dd spec dks are forgotten by Blizzard, period.

If a blue talks about dks in mop its always about blood dks.

No design changes of any value or matter.

If i compare this to other melee class i am quite shocked how, its possible to forget 2 dd specs like this.

Even in cata, dks recieved a lot more game design/play changes of relevance. for example, necro stacking, perma death runes for frost, and a pet that can be transformed.

I can't recommend the class in its current state and played it in wotlk till this day in raids and arenas. They are just no longer fun and incredible boring with outdated mechanics that makes the class play like an annoyance ------> e.g. rune system and lack of mobility, is really getting on my nerves, especially after playing other classes like rogues and locks that i used as mains too.

Besides always no one likes dks or even hates them.

I like to play hated classes i played locks and rogues in TBC and it was fun.....but if your class is hated at least it should be any useful too and not a burden.

I think a dk is only for style the class has no other value than this. i like my red transmogg gear on my dk and the pale skin, thats it.

[Darsithis]

You can write this with a straight face? In MoP dd spec dks are forgotten by Blizzard, period.

If a blue talks about dks in mop its always about blood dks.

No design changes of any value or matter.

Have you thought that, unlike some other classes, that we don't need extensive changes every patch cycle? Tons of changes says to me that the developers aren't sure about a class.

I can't recommend the class in its current state and played it in wotlk till this day in raids and arenas. They are just no longer fun and incredible boring with outdated mechanics that makes the class play like an annoyance ------> e.g. rune system and lack of mobility, is really getting on my nerves, especially after playing other classes like rogues and locks that i used as mains too.

That's your personal opinion, of course, and mine differs. I don't think they're boring. I don't think that they're outdated mechanics-wise. We fill a good niche in PvP (caster suppression) and we have mobility. The changes I'd like to see is our talent selection. It is frustrating that we have to choose mobility over snares/slows.

Besides always no one likes dks or even hates them.

Perhaps the people you know. I raid as a DK and no one has ever said "we hate you" or "we don't like you". I am comparable with the rest of the raid in dps (save for our rogue, who smashes everyone on the meters) and bring utility to the raid (brez, AMZ, Remorseless Winter for Nazgrim adds).

I like to play hated classes i played locks and rogues in TBC and it was fun.....but if your class is hated at least it should be any useful too and not a burden.

I think a dk is only for style the class has no other value than this. i like my red transmogg gear on my dk and the pale skin, thats it.

Please help me understand how we're a burden. In a min/maxing guild that is chasing world firsts, perhaps they would take a different CLASS over a DK (though I maintain a better player is always better than a better class) but for 99.5% of the guilds out there there is no reason to eschew DK's.

[Pickwickman]

Snip.

Change for the sake of change? Please no.

DK's are in a good spot right now playstyle wise, we have something for anything a boss throws at us or that we can talent into.

Also you're comparing our movement with the two classes that have the best movement in the game, rogues with sprint/shadowstep/burstofspeed and warlocks with burningrush/portals/bigportals. Our movement is flawed for a reason, we have pretty high ranged damage. You can talent into Death's Advance if you need even more movement.

[Shiira]

DK's are in a good spot right now playstyle wise

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

[Cerilis]

It's not dead. It's cold and stiff.

Sorry...but I have one more.

It's not dead. It's undead. *cheers*

*crawls back*

[Darsithis]

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

I understand that some people want to see Frost's toolkit expanded. They feel that it is too easy compared to more complicated specs that have 5 or 6 spells in their priority list and have to make split second decisions.

I counter that Frost, and indeed all DK specs, are beautiful and mysterious in their own way. First, Frost (at least 2H, I've never tried masterfrost) might put the same two abilities on the bar the most (Oblit/FS) but it matters how you use them with Blood Tap (a must for anyone trying to game their runes). Oblit without Rime up, prioritize KM, don't cap RP, dump RP into FS while avoiding capping charges.

Secondly I envision my dps as a wave. As my RP fills up, I'm riding the wave, high on the powerful strikes of my Oblit. I crest the wave as I am just about to cap RP and begin the long ride down, dumping my RP into BC's while my runes regen. Then the wave begins again! I rise up with Oblit (helped by BT), build up that RP, and ride back down the wave.

It's graceful. I've felt for a long time we're one of the more graceful specs in the game. Do we have a crapton of buttons to press? No. But there is beauty in the simplicity of our rotation and the complexity of truly mastering it. I don't want to see that change.

What I do want to see change is our scaling with gear. I'm not sure how to fix that but it's pretty bad, especially for 2H frost. I don't want to see our rotation change to accomplish it.

[Pickwickman]

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

1. Arcane mage; grand majority of damage is Arcane Blast.
2. Combat rogue; 70%! Dmg from autoattacks
3. Assasination rogue: 80%! Dmg from autoattacks and Envenom
4. Frost mage; grand majority of Dmg from icicles and Icelance
5. Ret paladin; grand majority of Dmg from autoattack and mastery.
6. Na fuck it you're clearly baiting for responses.

If youre going to just show that graph and don't take into consideration the micromanagement needed to pull it off you're either downplaying a spec or are grasping at straws to make a point.

[Deleted]

1. Arcane mage; grand majority of damage is Arcane Blast.
2. Combat rogue; 70%! Dmg from autoattacks
3. Assasination rogue: 80%! Dmg from autoattacks and Envenom
4. Frost mage; grand majority of Dmg from icicles and Icelance
5. Ret paladin; grand majority of Dmg from autoattack and mastery.
6. Na fuck it you're clearly baiting for responses.

If youre going to just show that graph and don't take into consideration the micromanagement needed to pull it off you're either downplaying a spec or are grasping at straws to make a point.

You are doing the same thing, you are downplaying the micromanagement needed for the 5 cases you posted. It´s pretty obvious for everyone that frost is more than 2 buttons, BUT its still one of the easiest specs to play and it gets even easier the more gear you acquire (makes you ignore soul reaper/obliterate even more).

I for one would like for frost to have some sort of real interaction with at least 1 of the 2 proccs. Like having a super buffed Icy Touch on Rime proccs. But thats just personal preference...As long as Frost is that dull(to me at least) i will keep playing my warrior and play my dk as unholy alt even though it is my old main.

[Lyese]

Every class can pretty much be summed with "rotationals, plus a proc or two!" I agree with Dar in that our combat is elegant, but the reason it's simple is because of Killing Machine and Rime. It's a bit beyond giving KM the Chaos Bolt treatment to fix our scaling issues.

[Deleted]

Every class can pretty much be summed with "rotationals, plus a proc or two!" I agree with Dar in that our combat is elegant, but the reason it's simple is because of Killing Machine and Rime. It's a bit beyond giving KM the Chaos Bolt treatment to fix our scaling issues.

Well yes, but in case of the Frost DK the rotational part is 3-5 abilities (depending on gear) opposed to 6-7 abilities for most other classes. But this is an exhausted discussion, in the end its all personal preferrence.