5 Man Dungeon Difficulty Poll in WoD

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Time instances where trash mobs are the main focus of the instance is not my idea of mythic.

The scaling is there, the difficulty is there (it is harder than Heroic), and the timer makes it that much more exciting.

Hell, all they need to do is put it in their oQue ripoff and it'll be perfect.

[wych]

The scaling is there, the difficulty is there (it is harder than Heroic), and the timer makes it that much more exciting.

Hell, all they need to do is put it in their oQue ripoff and it'll be perfect.

It's not the same though and it's not the challenge many people were after. TBC heroics could be fun because you had to take every pack as it comes, focus and organise how it'll go down, running through the instance GOTTA GO FAST NO TIME TO STOP AND SLOW, IGNORE AS MUCH TRASH AS POSSIBLE!! is not the same experience.

[Deleted]

Son, we already have Mythic.

It's called Challenge Mode. People just never used them.

Not by a long shot!

CM is a time-based, skill-based leaderboard driven version of dungeons. They require speed and rewards the players with achievements, transmog gear etc. They are in no way related to a "mythic" difficulty. A mythic difficulty would introduce more raidlike mechanics and difficulties to make 5-mans viable as an end-game option for casual players of a high skill level.


For comparison, if you didn't care about the timer, the CM wouldn't be nearly as hard as the "mythic" would be. They are two different things and shouldn't be misinterpreted to be the same. CM's are good end-game as well, this is really about giving people more choice, not take away choice.

This Sums it up for me perfectly.

[Deleted]

It's called Challenge Mode. People just never used them.

Challenge modes are pisseasy. The only difficulty comes from trying to figure out how many packs you can aoe-zerg down at the same time without dying.

[Markluzz]

I think adding a Mythic dungeon level would be fun and have it award loot on par with Normal Flexible raid difficulty (or maybe a tad above it if the mythic level dungeons are harder). The dungeons wouldn't be available on LFD similar to challenge mode dungeons, and you could only run them once a day. Then for challenge modes, you can have heroic level challenge modes and mythic level challenge modes.

Also, maybe have a low drop rate mount or pet at the end of one of them, also let them award more valor points than just randomly queuing for LFD (maybe valor per boss, and valor for completing it overall). This would allow people to have their faceroll heroics and challenging dungeons with rewards (that would be a little bit higher than LFR rewards), also it would take away making mythic raiders feel forced to run LFR (and thus run the same raid 2 or maybe even 3 times in a week), because there would be loot from the harder dungeons that they are capable of running that is better than the LFR loot to get for base level loot going into raids.

Still, they'd need to make the mythic level dungeons at early cata level at the easiest for this system to work.

[Tehterokkar]

The scaling is there, the difficulty is there (it is harder than Heroic), and the timer makes it that much more exciting.

Hell, all they need to do is put it in their oQue ripoff and it'll be perfect.

The Difficulty needs to be so that without CC, you will die, like it was in Cataclysm Heroics at the start. Challenge modes are not hard, they are massive zerg fests with trash skipping as much as possible.

Also Challenge modes don't offer any rewards that are worth it. Nor are they worth doing over and over again after you have 1 shotted gold on everything.

[Grimbold21]

Yeaaah, i don't trust polls on mmo champ anymore.

On late wotlk, it seemed the majority of posters here wanted harder hcs back with cataclysm. They came back and it was a total fiasco because "Q_Q i don't want to spend 45 mins doing an heroic"

Yes, i am aware that the posters of mmo champ only represent a part of the playerbase.

[jimlow]

Ill would like to keep it as it is. There is no reason to make it take 30 minutes to an hour to do a dungeon. I love the quick get in get out. People need to understand it should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER go back to the way it was in TBC and Cata EVER.

Cata proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt. People straight up stopped completing dungeons and good luck finding a group that would do ALL of HoO. And what happens when the veteran players no longer need to go in because they got everything they needed and their is no reason to go back? They bail. There is no paying it forward for any new person that starts those dungeons. And as the expansion continues the gap just gets worse and worse.

until towards they end you can't get into a premade group because you have greens and blues and the content that is designed for you you can't run because nobody will invite you into their group.

This is why there was such a huge rush to try and cheat ilevels as much as possible in cata so you could skip over all of the starting heroics and get right into the HoT ones as they gear to time ratio was so much better.

[Tehterokkar]

Ill would like to keep it as it is. There is no reason to make it take 30 minutes to an hour to do a dungeon. I love the quick get in get out. People need to understand it should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER go back to the way it was in TBC and Cata EVER.

Cata proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt. People straight up stopped completing dungeons and good luck finding a group that would do ALL of HoO. And what happens when the veteran players no longer need to go in because they got everything they needed and their is no reason to go back? They bail. There is no paying it forward for any new person that starts those dungeons. And as the expansion continues the gap just gets worse and worse.

until towards they end you can't get into a premade group because you have greens and blues and the content that is designed for you you can't run because nobody will invite you into their group.

This is why there was such a huge rush to try and cheat ilevels as much as possible in cata so you could skip over all of the starting heroics and get right into the HoT ones as they gear to time ratio was so much better.

You got your facts wrong broski...

Heroic Dungeons were tuned for Greens/Blues from quests, but the fact that there are so many bad players who have no idea some basic abilities even exist(like combat ress) in the game. They nerfed the Cata Heroics within the first month, after that they were lolfests for any group. I had MANY good groups during the first week, sure we wiped on some groups, but eventually got it done(even the "hard" ones). After the casuals/bad players got done leveling, it was a total nightmare. Also paired with the amount of idiots who queued as Tanks in full DPS gear and no clue how the spec even works(DKs not using Death Strike etc.)

Nobody cheated iLvls directly because of how the HC Dungs were in Cata(at least until they nerfed them), they cheated because there was no other way to gear up to the iLvl needed to do the 3 new dungeons/LFR. There literally was no other way than Heroic Dungeons to gear up, which gave crap gear and only way to get gear was to either: Run Normal old raids(T11/T12) or wait weeks until you have enough VP gear.

[melodramocracy]

Ill would like to keep it as it is. There is no reason to make it take 30 minutes to an hour to do a dungeon.
I love the quick get in get out.

Scenarios are for you then.

People need to understand it should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER go back to the way it was in TBC and Cata EVER.

Why is that exactly? There's enough other options for vp accrual now to no longer force folks into any 1 pattern.

[Krazzorx]

IMO, adding another difficulty which has the same rewards as LFR would be fine. It basically would be analogous to the timeless isle. You can farm the gear in any place, but it goes faster if you are capable of killing the Yaungol at the top. If you aren't, that's fine, same rewards but slower.

[jimlow]

Scenarios are for you then.



Why is that exactly? There's enough other options for vp accrual now to no longer force folks into any 1 pattern.

No Scenarios are not for me, besides those only take 5 or 10 minutes, there is no loot from the actual bosses, and the satchel you get at the end is unreliable for gearing up. Which is what dungeons were meant for amongst other things.

When your talking about VP accrual its important to factor time spent vs points earned. Grinding valor is only easy now because scenarios and heroics are easy. If heroics were hard aka TBC style and say you only got 80 VP for completing one. but then you got 20 VP for completing a 10 minute scenario and they were as easy as they are now people would just do scenarios. Leading to tank, dps, and healing shortages and long ques which which creates a negative reinforcement loop of pushing more people out of heroics and into scenarios. I highly doubt the player base at large does wants to consistently bang its head against a wall, for "challenge" or for some ethereal sense of self satisfaction or importance.

This was basically proven with Cata intro heroics which just broke any group that wasn't premade. Even after they nerfed them they completely flipped the script at the end of the xpac with the HoT heroics because of protest from the community.

[Draknalor186]

getting better gear is the goal.. why do you wanna make the grind slower then it has to be?

[Madruga]

About the difficulty of the heroic dungeons during Cataclysm's launch should be fun.

No. Just no.

Just for clarification. Heroics in Cataclysm launch were NOT hard for a coordinated and good group. Such as a guild group.

But Heroics are meant to be played in the Dungeon Finder. And the experience of 5-mans in Cataclysm through the Finder was horrific. Spending 2 hours in a single dungeon without hopes of clearing it was NOT fun.

And if you need a coordinated group for a Heroic, it misses its purpose.

Challenge Modes are there for coordinated groups to test their skill.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The Difficulty needs to be so that without CC, you will die, like it was in Cataclysm Heroics at the start. Challenge modes are not hard, they are massive zerg fests with trash skipping as much as possible.

Also Challenge modes don't offer any rewards that are worth it. Nor are they worth doing over and over again after you have 1 shotted gold on everything.

Oh I think the Challenge mode rewards are very worth it.

But if you want a difficulty where without CC you die guaranteed, you're asking for something even harder than Mythic Raiding. I'd actually be curious to see how many people continue to run those after the first month. I'm guessing maybe 1% of the playerbase at most.

[melodramocracy]

No Scenarios are not for me, besides those only take 5 or 10 minutes,

So that's too short, but over 30 is too long?

there is no loot from the actual bosses,

Easily changable.

and the satchel you get at the end is unreliable for gearing up.

See above.

When your talking about VP accrual its important to factor time spent vs points earned. Grinding valor is only easy now because scenarios and heroics are easy. If heroics were hard aka TBC style and say you only got 80 VP for completing one. but then you got 20 VP for completing a 10 minute scenario and they were as easy as they are now people would just do scenarios.

I don't see how this is a problem. There are always folks who will just consider the quickest, fastest option, and those who won't.

I highly doubt the player base at large does wants to consistently bang its head against a wall, for "challenge" or for some ethereal sense of self satisfaction or importance.

Cata heroics were a players one and only option for gaining both gear and vp aside from, or prior to, raiding. That model is no longer really required, which frees Blizzard up to do things like shake 5 mans up a bit. This is akin to saying that mythic raiding shouldn't exist, because most players want to breeze through via flex or even LFR.

It's awesome that you have magical insight into what the playerbase at large wants. By all means, continue leveraging that in an attempt to bolster your own opinion.

This was basically proven with Cata intro heroics which just broke any group that wasn't premade.

Revisionist history at best.

[Draknalor186]

spending 2 hours in a single dungeon without hopes of clearing it was NOT fun.

basiclly how i feel about anything, Raid or 5 mans Heroics or normals :>

[Tehterokkar]

Oh I think the Challenge mode rewards are very worth it.

But if you want a difficulty where without CC you die guaranteed, you're asking for something even harder than Mythic Raiding. I'd actually be curious to see how many people continue to run those after the first month. I'm guessing maybe 1% of the playerbase at most.

How is a transmog set and a title good rewards? I'd be happier with those 1-2 Ethereal Shards I get from Heroic Dungeons.

[Santoryu]

But Heroics are meant to be played in the Dungeon Finder.

According to whom? Those who expect rewards for zero work?

[Anoregon]

I voted for the "new difficulty" option. I would love an ACTUAL challenge mode that is an actually challenging difficulty and not just a speed run.